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Buying a scope which has better resale value?

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I am getting ready to buy my first Premier scope. The one I am looking at is the Light Tactical with illuminated gen 2 reticle. My question is which is the one everyone would prefer, the one with .1 mil or 1/4 moa adjustments??
It really doesn't matter to me as far as the adjustments go but if I decide to sell it later I want the one that is more desirable.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2012 at 16:41
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Interesting question... resale value has never been one of my criteria when purchasing a scope.  I believe the Gen 2 is a mil reticle... only one's I've seen were... therefore .1 mil adjustments "fit" better for most people.  However, it is a personal preference thing...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2012 at 16:50
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I would say .1 mil adjustments for sure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2012 at 17:00
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Agreed. It would be bad to have mismatched turrets and reticle. My two cents is that if you had to resell a mil/mil scope will be more popular. I have that scope, BTW, just w/o illum. and really like it. The mag range, weight and construction are great for a .308 and the glass is fantastic.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/15/2012 at 19:06
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thats what I keep hearing! everyone is saying the glass is phenomenal. I was going to go for an IOR or a NF but hell for another 5-600 I can get the best of both worlds.. good glass and dead nutz precision.  This is going on a regular ol AR15 first just to play with it till I get my long range rig built right.
But thanks I think mil is prob the way to go.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2012 at 23:11
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Originally posted by Gappa Gappa wrote:

I am getting ready to buy my first Premier scope. The one I am looking at is the Light Tactical with illuminated gen 2 reticle. My question is which is the one everyone would prefer, the one with .1 mil or 1/4 moa adjustments??
It really doesn't matter to me as far as the adjustments go but if I decide to sell it later I want the one that is more desirable.
 
+1 on going mil/mil and keeping the reticle and turrents matched.
 
Like the long term thinking Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2012 at 06:15
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Gappa, you may want to do some more research on the product if you are looking for "dead nutz" accurate.  Premier as a company is currently on the market, and looking for a buyer.  The one I had was total garbage.  The adjustments wouldn't track, the glass constantly fogged up, and the parallax wouldn't adjust.  I've had 300 dollar chinese piece of junk scopes that were better and more reliable.  And to top it all off, the warranty was a pain in the butt to deal with.  
     I wouldn't buy a scope for the resale, but none of the above are good selling points.  If looking to buy a scope in the 2-3k range, I would look to USO, S&B, vortex razor, SS, nightforce, etc.  Basically anything but the Premier line.  Just food for thought.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2012 at 11:28
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6.5 your info on Premier is totally false...Again. Your blatant hate for Premier is well known but spreading at best what is hearsay and rumors is wrong!
I would say you have the worst luck I have ever heard of when it comes to optics... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2012 at 11:58
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Agree'd BB, sounds like a personal vandetta against them

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2012 at 12:57
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Originally posted by 6.5x47 6.5x47 wrote:

Gappa, you may want to do some more research on the product if you are looking for "dead nutz" accurate.  Premier as a company is currently on the market, and looking for a buyer.  The one I had was total garbage.  The adjustments wouldn't track, the glass constantly fogged up, and the parallax wouldn't adjust.  I've had 300 dollar chinese piece of junk scopes that were better and more reliable.  And to top it all off, the warranty was a pain in the butt to deal with.  
     I wouldn't buy a scope for the resale, but none of the above are good selling points.  If looking to buy a scope in the 2-3k range, I would look to USO, S&B, vortex razor, SS, nightforce, etc.  Basically anything but the Premier line.  Just food for thought.

What is the source of your information on Premier company looking for a buyer?

For the record, I have tested a few Premier scopes and they were quite exemplary.

As far as the original question goes, I recommend 0.1 mil turrets.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2012 at 15:09
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Originally posted by 6.5x47 6.5x47 wrote:

Gappa, you may want to do some more research on the product if you are looking for "dead nutz" accurate.  Premier as a company is currently on the market, and looking for a buyer.  The one I had was total garbage.  The adjustments wouldn't track, the glass constantly fogged up, and the parallax wouldn't adjust.  I've had 300 dollar chinese piece of junk scopes that were better and more reliable.  And to top it all off, the warranty was a pain in the butt to deal with.  
     I wouldn't buy a scope for the resale, but none of the above are good selling points.  If looking to buy a scope in the 2-3k range, I would look to USO, S&B, vortex razor, SS, nightforce, etc.  Basically anything but the Premier line.  Just food for thought.


You posted the same thing back in February without backing up your claim. I too would really like to know where you are getting your information.

You also commented that the glass was very good, now it's???


Edited by Sparky - June/18/2012 at 15:15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2012 at 19:43
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Obviously, based on my experience with Premier as a company, I have kept an eye out for how the business has progressed in the last few years.  Well Chris, the owner, has left the company.  They are "restructuring" the company by letting go of all the u.s. based employees.  With only the exception of one man to handle warranty repairs.  Optronica, the guys who designed the scope, are now making it under the Premier name.  ATI is handling the  distribution end of Premier until they find a buyer for the company.  Just have a look at what the last employee at Premier has to say. He goes by Plange over on the hide.  
Winchester, VA is a quiet place as far as optics go these days.  All this info was posted by Plange in the later part of 2011.

And on the glass issue.  So when does great looking glass, and fogging up glass ever have anything in common?  When it wasn't fogged up, it has great glass.  Simple as that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2012 at 11:11
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I don't usually recommend looking at post counts, but when somebody comes thundering in here without a track record and starts making serious and outrageous remarks, maybe it's best to pay attention to the comments made by those who have been around a while.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2012 at 14:31
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by 6.5x47 6.5x47 wrote:

Gappa, you may want to do some more research on the product if you are looking for "dead nutz" accurate.  Premier as a company is currently on the market, and looking for a buyer.  The one I had was total garbage.  The adjustments wouldn't track, the glass constantly fogged up, and the parallax wouldn't adjust.  I've had 300 dollar chinese piece of junk scopes that were better and more reliable.  And to top it all off, the warranty was a pain in the butt to deal with.  
     I wouldn't buy a scope for the resale, but none of the above are good selling points.  If looking to buy a scope in the 2-3k range, I would look to USO, S&B, vortex razor, SS, nightforce, etc.  Basically anything but the Premier line.  Just food for thought.

What is the source of your information on Premier company looking for a buyer?

For the record, I have tested a few Premier scopes and they were quite exemplary.

As far as the original question goes, I recommend 0.1 mil turrets.

ILya
Although I will quickly admit. I am not, by any stretch of ones imagination, a "Optics Expert."  But I can, an will say, for the record, "Koshkin is" and there are many on more than just this forum who would wholeheartedly agree with me on that.  I tend to render unto Ceasar, Ergo, I defer to Ilya!   LOL!
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2012 at 14:49
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Originally posted by 6.5x47 6.5x47 wrote:

Gappa, you may want to do some more research on the product if you are looking for "dead nutz" accurate.  Premier as a company is currently on the market, and looking for a buyer.  The one I had was total garbage.  The adjustments wouldn't track, the glass constantly fogged up, and the parallax wouldn't adjust.  I've had 300 dollar chinese piece of junk scopes that were better and more reliable.  And to top it all off, the warranty was a pain in the butt to deal with.  
     I wouldn't buy a scope for the resale, but none of the above are good selling points.  If looking to buy a scope in the 2-3k range, I would look to USO, S&B, vortex razor, SS, nightforce, etc.  Basically anything but the Premier line.  Just food for thought.

Holy hell, where did that come from!

Gappa, I cannot more strenuously disagree with 6.5's comments, don't know his background or agenda but he is ass-out wrong on this one.

Premier has had a few issues, mostly pertaining to their Heritage 3-15s and some issues with USMC trials, but those issues are resolved (to the satisfaction of the vast majority) and not relevant to the LT.

I own a Heritage and it is dead nutz, very dependable, overbuilt for strength, and the glass is quite good.  I have comapared it side-by-side with Hensoldt 3-12 and 4-16 and the Premier loses only slightly (the Hensoldt has the best eye box in the business, and that is of huge consequence to me), and costs significantly less.

I own a LT as well (going to South Africa with me in "12 and a wake-up", it has been stress tested in ways that would make most people cringe, and I have had exactly zero problems.  Glass is great, tracking is great, everything works as it should, no complaints, only praise.

As for 6.5, I am unfamiliar with your posts, but you are definitely on my short list of people to watch for BS-spewing.

"Anything but Premier" is spoken like a guy with an ax to grind.  And when a scope fails as thoroughly as you say yours did, I have yet to see one not operator-induced.

Please, please tell me you bought a Countersniper to replace your POS Premier. Please!  Gappa, .1 adjustments on a double-turn turret with Gen2XR and don't look back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2012 at 14:58
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Why do I laugh out loud anytime I here the name Counter Sniper?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2012 at 15:20
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


Please, please tell me you bought a Countersniper to replace your POS Premier. Please!


I just can not stop laughing that is way too funny.

I wonder if that is the $300 piece of Chinese junk that 6.5x47 was saying is better?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2012 at 17:48
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A few points.
    I haven't made any claims about Premier as a company that didn't come directly from Premier's only remaining U.S. employee.

   About the Light Tactical.  You guys are right. I have no experience with the light tactical.  My experience with Premier comes from having purchased a Heritage 3-15 back in 2009.  It really was an awful scope, and awful customer service.

   About the Chinese Junk.  I am a firm believer in having a backup scope that is pre-zeroed, and, as it turns out, I needed it when dealing with the Heritage.  I have a falcon menace 4-14 as a backup for the bolt action, and a sightron sI 3-9 mildot for the ar15.  The backups are cheap, and designed to be used in a pinch, so i keep them in mounts already zeroed.  I would love to have a few spare nightforce f1's sitting around as a backup scope, but that just isn't going to happen on my limited budget.  If the S.S. 6x42 mil/mil would have been back then, I would have that as a backup instead.  But the menace has all the basic features one needs, but the glass is akin to looking through the bottom of a coke bottle and the clicks are mushier that mashed potatoes. 

    After the Premier went down in 2010, I purchased a Vortex Razor and have been running with that scope ever since.   That scope has been very good, but is still not exactly perfect for what I need.  I actually use my scopes, and have found many scopes to come up short in several areas.  Running a lefty 90 degree bolt rules out alot of scopes for me.  The illumination knob on a S&B sits right in the way of my bolt.  If the parallax knobs sticks out too far, my empty cases have a tendency to bounce off the knob and fall right back into the ejection port on my Stiller. That rules out Hensoldt's.  The Vortex Razor has a tiny parallax knob, and the illumination is out of the way of the bolt.  As long as the Razor holds together, it is the best match for my rifle at this time.  I have opinions on all the scopes that I've owned over the last several years.  Not all of them are favorable, but they are an honest opinion from this person's point of view.

A couple pics so maybe you guys won't think I'm completely full of $hit. Loco
Chinese and Japanese junk.
And lastly the controversial Heritage from 09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 11:04
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6.5x47,  by the last remaining US employee, do you mean Paul Lange?
When exactly did he say that the company is looking for a buyer?

As for problems with Premier scopes, there were early problems with some and they were resolved in just about every case I am aware (except for yours, I suppose).

I have tested, to date, a few 3-15x50s from Premier both regular ones and LTs.  Never had any problems with any of them and not for the lack of trying either.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 11:05
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Oh, almost forgot: I commend you on your choice of the Razor.  Easily one of my favourites scopes for the money.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 16:18
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All right, I went ahead and gave Paul Lange (Premier Service Center) a call.

I had not talked to him since early in the year, so it was good to chat and catch up a little anyway.

Best I can tell, if he is your source, then you are completely misrepresenting what he said.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 16:49
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Thanks ILya for going the extra mile and getting the facts straight from the source. 

I wonder what he would have to say about the issues that 6.5x47 had with his Premier.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 16:57
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I have talked with Paul extensively about early issues with Premier scopes.

Noone denies that there were issues.  They were identified and resolved with minor design iterations.  Everyone who sent in the scope with those issues got everything fixed.  

ILya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 19:19
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Ah hells bells!! Your a lefty too?!?! Wink

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 20:24
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Seems to me there have been a number of outlandish statements made here.  One persons experience surely does not define another's, but that does not negate the validity of the experience.  While there may be some overly negative comments here, there are certainly some overly defensive comments.  

Everyone should take a chill pill...
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