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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2005 at 18:39
dwhunter View Drop Down
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Ok this is my first post so here it goes. I've been reading all the likes and dislikes about scopes and it seems there is alot of Bushnell fans out there. I guess eye relief is not a issue to them. To me 3" of eye relief is not enough. 3 1/2" is a min and 4" is more like it. People talk about recoil and while that is true no one ever brings up the real problem of mounting the scope far enough back for weak eye relief which opens up a new can of worms extension bases or rings. With Leupold I've never had that problem, you know why, I'll tell you why "EYE RELIEF". You can rant and rave all day long about clear optics, rain guard and such but if you have to get so far into your scope to see your going to get the crap kicked out of you. I am not pro Leupold but every scope should have a 3 1/2" min.eye relief.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2005 at 19:45
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You are certainly right about eye relief.  However, that is only an issue on rifles with some recoil.  Let's say sporter weight 308 and up.  There is a host of guns with less recoil where eye relief is not as big of a deal; various 22 caliber guns are good examples of that as are many others.

 

Besides, a lot depends on shooting position and stock fit.  Every time I go to the range I see people get bloodied by a scope due to bad shooting position at the bench.

 

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2005 at 22:42
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Okay, I will be the first to admit, "I Love Eye Relief".  If I wore glasses when I hunt, then I would love it even more.  I will also admit that 20 years ago I was shooting a new Ruger model 77 in 30-06 when my redfield gave me a half moon cut between my eyes.  Not sure what the eye relief was on that scope but I will guess it was around 3 inches.  But, it was more my fault than the scope because I was not holding the rifle correctly.  I had another Ruger model 77 in 257 Roberts, it was my primary rifle and was identical to the new 30-06, (same scope, mounts, weight,ect).  Hencefourth, the difference was the recoil, and I learned quickly that I could not hold the 06 as loose as the 257. That day I could have had 5 inches of eye relief and the result would have been the same. 
  I do not own a bushnell, but I am interested in the elites.  Their eye relief is around 3.3 inches.  If one does not wear glasses, correctly holds the rifle,  and has proper cheek to stock placement, than 3.3 inches should be sufficient.  Their are other scopes out there with a little less eye relief than the bushnell elites and some with just a little bit more but are still below your minimum eye relief standard yet you do not mention them by name.  Maybe you just don't like bushnell.  For what you say is true than there should be a lot of hunters and shooters walking around with magnum eyebows.  I will keep an eye out for them and then I too will jump on your band wagon.              
   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2005 at 23:00
koshkin View Drop Down
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Everybody's experience is different.  Some people naturally tend to crawl up on the stock (this happens to me) and some have prominent eyebrow ridges.  In both cases more eye relief is a good idea.

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2005 at 07:00
dwhunter View Drop Down
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I'm not against Bushnell other than eye relief but is amazing how many people buy their products because of their gimmicks. Like Rainguard, probably only two out of 100 ever see the need for it, and the firefly option is the biggest joke to come down the pike.Resale is a joke its just ain't there. I have bought Leupolds and use them 2-5 years and resell'em for what I paid for'em and they have eye relief. Zeiss, Leupold, and Burris could be if they would get their bugs worked out are ire in the top three.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2005 at 12:19
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You have some pretty strong opinions about some scope features such as Rainguard and Firefly. You sound as if you have not been in many situations where you could appreciate these featues. I can guarantee there are people here who have depended on these features and yes, many more who have not. To those people who have, these features are not so much a "gimmick" as they are an aid and preference to the type of hunting they do and thats what it all comes down to: Hunters' different experiences, likes and needs as they relate to those experiences.I have never had the need to use any more than 6 power in my 50 year hunting.experience. It would be unfair of me to say it is ridiculous to use a 4x12 scope as a hunting tool because it has not been my experience to need those powers. For others and for whatever their reasons to use such a scope, they are well justified to use these powers just as some people are well justified to use Rainguard and Firefly technology. Its like 4 wheel drive. You may not need this feature most of the time, but you sure appreciate it when you wish you had it and its there. By the way, the way I use a rifle, I wish all scopes had at least 5" of  relief

Edited by arro222
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2005 at 17:06
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I think most, if not all, Bushnells have atleast 3.3" of eye relief. If that is insufficient for one's preferance or purpose, then don't buy one. 

 

A 3.5-10x40mm Leupold is spec'ed at 4.4"-3.5" and 3.5" seems to be the minimum standard. 

If you get wacked in the face every time you turn the scope up to 10-power then it might be time to get a lighter cal. rifle or learn a different shooting position.

The difference in eye relief between my 4-16 Bushnell 4200s and 4.5-14 Leupold is negligible.

At higher magnifications, I can't note any difference, and the listed specs differ by 0.1". 

 

The type of weapon you plan on mounting the optic on and the positions you will be shooting it in are of greater significance.  On some bench rifles I can get away with little eye relief since the cheek weld is consistant. 

 

Bushnell certainly isn't the greatest scope on the market in ANY specification.  However, I don't think it is fair to dismiss them on the grounds outlined in this topic.  Other popular manufactures are in the same boat but, no mention is made of them. 

 



Edited by Boomholzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2005 at 05:00
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I do a TON of shooting off the bench with some real big bore boomers and I've never been stung by a Bushnell 4200.  Granted, they could have a little more eye relief but most of what I see is bad shooting posture!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2005 at 18:46
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I have only owned the 3200's in a few different configurations and I have never noticed a problem with eye relief. Maybe you need to work out a bit to get some shoulder strength. When you fire a gig bore rifle your head, neck, arms and shoulder should move as one unit with your shoulder acting as the main recoil buffer or spring.

Maybe you should just shoot lighter recoiling rifles. It's funny how people think they need a magnum to kill deer and elk. Only in Africa do you need the biggest and baddest because if not you may get killed by the very game you are pursueing.



Edited by jonnyringo
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2005 at 21:54
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When I was talking about eye relief I said in the beginning it wasn't all about the recoil, it was the adjustment that is required to get proper eye relief hince extension rings and or bases which shouldn't be necessory. And I don't shoot heavy recoiling rifles. The four I shoot are 25.05,270,30.06 & 7mm Mag, the 25.06 and 270 are the most used. And finally I sure don't need no shooting class on what to shoot or how!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2005 at 03:20
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jonnyringo, you are mostly right about not needing a magnum to kill most american game.  If you come to Alaska and have to go into the alders after a wounded and pissed off brown bear you might re-evaluate your thinking!


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2005 at 11:09
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gozarian, no wonder your scopes take such a beating.....your keeping the bears and bulls off of you.  Awesome!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2005 at 17:57
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Calling developments like Rainguard and the FireFly retcle "gimmicks is like saying ABS braking and radial tires are  the same to the auto industry. You obviously have little time in real life hunting situations or are one of those folks who goes back to 'the lodge" for soup and crackers to warm up when the clock strikes 10 AM.If you think that these types of inventions are" gimmicks" then I believe you are missing out on two of the most inovative designs to come down the pike in quite sometime. If you are a varmit hunter, please disregard the above comments.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2005 at 18:31
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Roy wise up and read for a change some of the reports and tests done on the Firefly and see what they say, it doesn't work well. Rainguard does work but I merely said most people bought into it but never used it. I assure you I'll out hunt you any day of the week. When I go to the stand it's ALL day. As far as ABS brakes they suck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2005 at 18:47
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DW,

 

Can you provide some references or at least attempt to Google your way into posting some references?  I have never used a fire-fly recticle.

 

Do you hunt in the desert?



Edited by Boomholzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2005 at 22:52
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I have read how a person didn't like the Firefly option when he stated he didn't want to drag up a flashlight while hunting to renew the glow and risk being spotted, especially when one could simply switch on and off an illuminated reticle at will. Thats fine. I do not like the way most illuminated scopes look with that what is to me that gorky looking switch on top of the ocular. The scope looks better to me when the switch  is mounted on the turret but it is ususlly the expensive Euro scopes doing it this way. The Firefly is a good feature for me as it does not detract from the looks of the scope, is economical and stays visible enough for coyote night work and you get a bit fatter reticle which is good in low light. It is what I was trying to say earlier about preferences. Some people are not bothered the way a scope should look. Its not important for some as it is for me. If you need to think of the Firefly as a gimmick thats ok too with me. Whatever the hell anybody wants to tag it I could care less. For me its a useful tool that I appreciate
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2005 at 18:10
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Come on guys let's keep the personal attacks to a minimum.

                      

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