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Bushnell Elite 6500??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 18:39
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 As stated in another thread I am wondering why a scope that was rated by SWFA as approximately equal to the Nightforce, Leupold VX-7 and IOR Valdada hunting scopes in optical quality, specifications, customer service, price etc would be all but ignored by the scope gurus who seem to just love to discover and examine new scopes as they emerge to be displayed to the public.  Certainly, some of the assessment of the SWFA rating of the Bushnell Elite 6500 had to be speculation based, I guess, primarily on exposure during the SHOT show and also on the long standing reputation of it's younger brother the Elite 4200.
 
 Since one explaination for this has been that the 6500 has limited and unlikeable configurations I decided to seek out the specifications on other scopes in this same class to see how they might compare.  This was rather difficult to do since rifle scope manufacturers use varied terms and some using mm and others using inches as their standard of measure.  After doing this I am still in amazement that more haven't examined and reported on this new scope.  Keep in mind that I have absolutely no personal interest in Bushnell or any rifle scope manufacturer.  Maybe some of you might shed some light on the reason that this mysterious scope doesn't received too much attention.  Allow me to share some of the specifications:
 
Bushnell Elite 6500  2.5-16x42 MilDot  approx retail = $699
weight = 17 oz        length = 13.5    Tube = 30mm    Field of view = 41-2.5, 6.5-16          Eye relief = 3.9    Exit Pupil = 16.8-2.5, 2.6-16    elevation adjustment = 80 MOA
 
IOR Valdada hunting  3-18x42 Illuminated Dot  approx retail = $1425
weight = 28 oz       length = 13.5     Tube = 35mm     Field of View = 61-3, 8-18
Eye relief = 3.5       exit pupil = 14-3, 2.3-18    elevation adjustment = 60 MOA?
 
Nightforce hunting 3.5-15x50 MilDot    approx retail = $2680
weight = 30 oz      length = 14.7   tube = 30mm    field of view = 27-3.5, 7-17
Eye relief = 3.9      Exit pupil = 14.3mm,  3.6mm ?   elevation adjustment = 110 MOA
 
Zeiss Conquest  4.5-14x44  MilDot  approx retail = $858
weight = 17 oz     length = 13.8      Tube = 1 inch     Field of view = 25-4.5, 8.4-14
Eye relief = 3.5     Exit pupil = 9.7- 4.5, 3.1-14     elevation adjustment = 42MOA ?
 
Leupold VX-7  3.5-14x50  MilDot  approx retail = $1499
weight = 17       length = 13.8     Tube = 30MM      Field of view = 28-3.5, 7-14
eye relief = 3.8   Exit Pupil = 14.3-3.5, 3.6-14     elevation adjustment  ???????
 
 Maybe some of that information isn't completely accurate as it was very difficult to find comparable info but you will notice that all but the Conquest is way out of the Elite 6500 price class.  However, if you disregard pricing and just look at the specs......wouldn't the Elite 6500 look rather appealing or at the very least worth investigating?  Yes the 6500 has limited choices of reticles and configurations but I must still be missing something.  Anyone care to fill me in?..........Doug
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 18:45
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I won't buy one because they are new and have not yet proven themselves.  Also I don't need a scope with a 16x top end for a hunting scope.  9x is as much as I will ever need for big game hunting.  As far as using it for a tactical/precision rifle scope I would rather stick with IOR because I am always amazed at the glass and quality of them.  Also most of the tactical/precision scopes have much better reticles than just a standard old mildot, lots better options out there.  I just see no reason to give it a go, they entered into an already saturated market and I think it is just going to take some time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 18:50
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At this moment, I encourage you to purchase one and report back what you think.  Please, compare it to the others on the list.

Do you, in any way, work for Bushnell or have a vested interest in people purchasing their products?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 18:50
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 Beats me .... the 4200 was good ... they're supposed to be better . But you know how it goes ... some think you HAVE TO PAY bucu bucks or they won't put them on their rifle .... big heads ... fat wallets and little brains . Are they an AO ?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 18:55
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

At this moment, I encourage you to purchase one and report back what you think.  Please, compare it to the others on the list.

Do you, in any way, work for Bushnell or have a vested interest in people purchasing their products?
 
Rancid......I am just an uninformed hunter who has used old Simmons and newer Sightron 2 scopes on his rifles and am just now becoming curious about higher end scopes.  My questions have a purely academic motive and also I am trying to get to 50 posts so I can participate more completely in the forum.Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 19:18
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 I don't think it is really a matter of  lack of interest in them, as it is that they just haven't been out long enough to get into a lot of our hands yet.  I for one would love to try one out, but I just don't have a real pressing need to spend any more scope dollars at the present time. 
 I think the configurations are somewhat limited to rather specialized rifles; ("Walking varminters", for instance.)  If I got one, it would be mounted to a varmint rifle, and used primarily on the high end of it's magnification range, as opposed to being mounted on a sporter and kept dialed down most of the time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 20:31
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X 2, RONK.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 20:42
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I would like to chime in. I own three 4200's, just purchased 3x9x40 , a 4x16x50 on top my Savage .243 and a 6x24x40 front focus which sits on top a high end pre charged pneumatic .22 cal air rifle.
I called Bushnell the other day about changing the parralax setting to 75 yards on the 3x9 and they said it can't be done. I then asked about the glass quality of the 6500's and he told me they were 4200 glass.
I bring this all up because I don't see people talking about the range finding capability of 24x or higher. On my 6x24x40 I can really dial in the distance with the front focus when on 24x to help figure my range and holdover on the short shooting air rifle. One can imagine how good a 30x scope with a 50mm front objective and a 30mm tube along with a side focus would be for using to range find. I would think the Elite 6500 6x30x50 would  be very accurate in rangefinding capability, especially with that side focus. This to me is a very important benefit that I rarely see spoken about.
Does this feature mean much to the rest of you, please chime in.
 
Thanks
 
Charlie
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 20:46
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 Hey Mojo, want to buy one?  I'd be happy to get together with you to check it out!
 
Heck, I'll supply the targets and I might even buy lunch!     Yep,%20Thought%20So
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 20:58
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Originally posted by Harriershot Harriershot wrote:

I would like to chime in. I own three 4200's, just purchased 3x9x40 , a 4x16x50 on top my Savage .243 and a 6x24x40 front focus which sits on top a high end pre charged pneumatic .22 cal air rifle.
I called Bushnell the other day about changing the parralax setting to 75 yards on the 3x9 and they said it can't be done. I then asked about the glass quality of the 6500's and he told me they were 4200 glass.
I bring this all up because I don't see people talking about the range finding capability of 24x or higher. On my 6x24x40 I can really dial in the distance with the front focus when on 24x to help figure my range and holdover on the short shooting air rifle. One can imagine how good a 30x scope with a 50mm front objective and a 30mm tube along with a side focus would be for using to range find. I would think the Elite 6500 6x30x50 would  be very accurate in rangefinding capability, especially with that side focus. This to me is a very important benefit that I rarely see spoken about.
Does this feature mean much to the rest of you, please chime in.
 
Thanks
 
Charlie
 
 So you're turning the objective bell until the target appears sharp, and then reading the value marks engraved in the bell to determine range?
 Seems a little less than precise to me, but I sure won't argue if it works for you.
 Why did you want the parallax changed on the 3-9?  I assume you were planning to mount it on a .22?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2008 at 23:23
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I fully expect to review one of the Elite 6500 scopes some time this year based on how impressed I was with them at the SHOT show.  Quite frankly, I just havn't gotten to them.  I am leaning toward the 2.5-16x42 MilDot variation, but I might do a comparison between 4.5-30x50 Elite 6500 and Sightron S3 8-32x56.  It depends on how much time I have and how much money I can put into this.  Quite frankly, I can't afford to keep buying scopes every month.

Also, I am eagerly awaiting for Bushnell to introduce a 1-6.5x scope (probably by next SHOT show).

Doug, the thread where you originally raised the topic of Elite 6500 being ignored was more about 3-9x or similar scopes which are a fair bit more compact than the 6500.  Elite 6500 scopes are reasonably sized for the configurations they offer, but they are notably bigger and heavier than typical 3-9x40 scopes.

Anyhow, as far as scope testing goes, the next scope I review will be Vortex 4-12x40, since Vortex sent me a sample for review.  I can keep it until the end of July which should give me plenty of time to play with it.  I will compare it against Elite 4200 and, possibly, Sightron S2 Big Sky.

Some time in the summer or early fall, I also hope to spend time with an Ellis Optics product of some sort.  Not sure what I will compare it against, I suppose that will depend on which Ellis scope I get.

I have a US Optics SN4S waiting for review.

I have Vortex Razor 8.5x50 binoculars with a 2x multiplier coming this summer as well (this one I purchased, it is not a sample from Vortex).

Realistically, I do not think I will get to do anything with Elite 6500 until late fall or winter.  Until I can spend some time with it, I am leery of recommending it to others.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2008 at 11:55
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 Very good responses, thanks.   Two months ago I purchased a 2.5-16x42 Bushnell Elite 6500 because I got a very good price on it with the guarantee from Bushnell that if I am dissatisfied that I can return it to them for full refund.  I am planning on putting it on a custom made Swinglock muzzleloader which won't be ready to reach my hands until early next year.  I didn't know if I would see this type of pricing again on this scope so I decided to take the plunge.
 
Since reading the various posts in the forum I have become curious about higher end rifle scopes (higher end than Sightron 11 which I feel is a very good and dependable scope).  Not having the opportunity for various reasons to actually test the scope under shooting conditions my hopes were that someone would have a report on the scope.  Search the web as I might I found no such report which I thought was strange.
 
Originally I had problem with understanding the focusing using the side parallax adjustment.  It worked much differently than the only other side parallax scope in my possession which is a Kahles CL which has it's reticle in the first focal plane.  Once ILya gave me instructions on how to make focusing adjustments the picture became crystal clear even at 16X.
 
Comparing the optics to a Sightron II 4.5-14x42 and a Kahles CL 3-6x42 I noticed that the 6500 was just as bright as either and that the clarity might have been lacking just a tad compared to the kahles.  Focusing was no problem. I was able to read the house numbers on mail boxes 200 yards away with no trouble.  Now for the dim lighting test.  I walked into dense pines in my back yard at official sundown where I have a tree stand and a shootable deer decoy standing in front of a pushed up pile of dirt 35 yards from the stand.  To my suprise the 6500 gave me just as clear a sight picture as the Kahles until the very last 5 minutes when the Bushnell began  to flare a bit.  I tested the two scopes on two consecutive nights once on 3 power and then again on 6 power with the same findings.  Keep in mind that this is my amateur opinion based on 53 year old eye sight.
 
I hope to test the accuracy of the windage and elevation adjustments as soon as I get opportunity and I will report to you then.  My initial assessment is that the strength of the Elite 6500 is also it's weakness.  Having  a 6x erector and a tremendous field of view on low power along with great eye relief this stands as a great short to medium range optic except for one factor.  It weighs 17 oz and with the 30mm tube is rather bulky.  As a long range optical tool it is somehat lacking in vertical adjustment and is competing in a market that has long standing favorites.  This is probably one of the most versatile rifle scopes on the planet but today's market leans toward specialty not versatility. Not sure why the MilDot seems archaic or outdated but the scope also has a very limited choice in reticles.
 
 I think I will be selling my Sightron and putting the 6500 on my Swinglock muzzleloader when it arrives.  I am hoping to develop a 500 yard muzzleloader and with the rifle itself weighing in at 12 lbs I don't think this is a rifle that I will be lugging through the mountains of Virginia anyway so the size and weight isn't that much of a factor for me.  Thanks to all for the responses and I will keep looking for other assessments of the Bushnell Elite 6500.
 
 Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2008 at 13:27
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Can somebody confirm on the 6500 that the mildots are true at x10, and how thick are the hairs compared to 4200?
 
Cheers,
 
richvic
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2008 at 16:29
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Originally posted by mercenary1947 mercenary1947 wrote:

 Beats me .... the 4200 was good ... they're supposed to be better . But you know how it goes ... some think you HAVE TO PAY bucu bucks or they won't put them on their rifle .... big heads ... fat wallets and little brains . Are they an AO ?
 
 
Yup.  The advertising wars.   If Zeiss comes out with ANOTHER $2500 scope, Leupold will "suddenly" come out with a $1900 scope next week.  Stare  If Leupold was in the same league as Zeiss, how come they weren't producing scopes that cost three times as much as Redfield in the 1960s???? Stare SUDDENLY Leupold is producing a $1500 scope???  WHAT??? Didn't we DESERVE IT it 1970????  America's Optics Authority was hoarding all of this expertise FOR THIRTY FIVE YEARS so they could UNLEASH it all at the Proper Time!!!  It was like a SECRET.  Them guys are pretty sneaky.  And all this time we thought they were just a regular scope company from Oregon who used single coatings on most of their scopes for 55 years. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 11:32
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 Another aspect about this mystery rifle scope from Bushnell.  Thought I would share this thread from another forum:
 
"The objective is to dial out parallax but in higher magnification scopes the focus is also being adjusted. In reality you can't have one without the other. In lower magnification scopes that did not have this the scope was set for as wide as a focus range as possible since there was no way to correct it even being offered. This is and always was somewhat of a compromise. Because we had no option and it worked (except for coming in to really close range) we didn't care.

What you are really complaining about is that you don't have a "true zoom" scope. True zoom means that as you zoom in and out the focus to the object does not change regardless of distance. You will probably find that when dialed out to something very far away, as in focused in on that object, when you zoom in and out it will stay in focus more than if its 100 yards away. It should get worse at closer ranges and better at further ranges. There may be one sweet spot where it does stay in focus, maybe not, but of course, that won't be the distance that you will ever really need when hunting.

That is the difference between true zoom and just a variable magnification scope. In a camera lense, making a true zoom is more desirable but expensive. the cam work to make all that happen alone is a lot more work.

Doing it in a rifle scope is a bear. Now that there are rifle scopes with a much wider zoom range, 6 to 1 instead of just 3 to 1 its going to be more noticeable that zooming out from 2.5 to 16X the target didn't stay in focus.
This is the price to be paid for a very large zoom range scope.

There is nothing wrong with it, its not defective, its just not convenient. You would think that if you were focused in on an animal at 250yards away and then decide to zoom in for that closer look, that it would stay in focus. Well that is a lot more money, if any one even makes it. the scope tube would probably have to be fatter and heavier as well.

The truth of the matter is that this type of scope is not a preferred "hunting" scope its more of a target shooting and varmint scope where you aren't going to need to quickly go from low to high power.

I was wondering if that was going to be the case with these scopes, now we know. Unless of course when you were checking it out you were focused in on something only 50 feet away.

Try it at a whole bunch of different yard ranges and see what it does" MrGman


Edited by dougedwards - July/22/2008 at 20:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 19:47
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Quote:
"I then asked about the glass quality of the 6500's and he told me they were 4200 glass. "
 
 
 
So the 6500 is a 4200 with bells and whistles?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2008 at 19:56
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Originally posted by crispycritter crispycritter wrote:

Quote:
"I then asked about the glass quality of the 6500's and he told me they were 4200 glass. "
 
 
 
So the 6500 is a 4200 with bells and whistles?
 
 Yeah.....one of the bells is the side parallax that must be adjusted when changing magnification.
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