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Bushnell Elite 4200 Adj Problem

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2007 at 07:43
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I just received my new Bushnell 4200 Elite 4-16x50 scope.

When sighting it in the elevation did not respond very well.  I even tried going past a few clicks and returning but it still seemed to move the reticle only after the firat shot.  What I mean is the first shot had no change in POI but a second shot did.   Nor did the adjustments seem to be in inciments of 1/8 MOA - they seemed to vary.  These were the first adjustments and were 6 - 8 clicks and was even more difficult when final zeroing.  Is this a defective scope?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2007 at 11:51
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Yes!!! You have a problem!!! Send it back and get another! Problems like these are very rare but they do happen!................You should have free replacement from where ever you purchased that scope from!!!!!.................I have an Elite 4200 and have had no problems with sighting in or holding zero!! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2007 at 15:30
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Scope problem, send it back.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2007 at 11:00
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I would be curious to know what rifle you are shooting, the caliber, mounts and whether you tapped the turrets after making adjustments.  Sometimes the grease used in the turrets can become thick and stiff and a tap or two can make sure the adjustment sticks.  Another problem could be with the scope mounting itself.  Did you lap the rings.  Depending on the brand and quality of the rings, whether they are self-compensating and whether your mounting holes on the rifle are aligned properly, you may be applying excessive torque to the scope tube, affecting the E/W adjustment mechanisms.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2007 at 21:04
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I am shooting an AR15 .223

Warnes Mounts

Tried tapping the turrets, tried going past and coming back a few clicks

Checked the rings with ground rod and bluing, did not lap, was not needed. The Warnes are excellent mounts absolutely no binding on the tube.

Following a discussion with Bushnell tec service, I have returned the scope to Bushnell and asked for the no questions asked new replacement.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2007 at 08:02
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Good deal.  I use Warne mounts and rings almost exclusively and with those, I do not lap.  You did the right thing.  Let us know how the new scope works out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2007 at 12:02
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This is probably the last Bushnell product I will buy.  Considering spending a considerable amount of money to purchase their top of the line product, the time they are taking to honor their "No Questions Asked" one- year replacement promise has become excessive.

Thet received the scope at 10:19am June 1.  Even though there is supposed to be a "No Questions Asked" one- year replacement guarantee, it will not be evaluated until Monday the 11th.  There was no promise from customer service when the "No Questions Asked" one- year replacement would be sent but I am guessing it will be another week at least.

I had a hunt planned for the week of the 11th that we built a pair of custom AR-15 Varmint rifles for.  Including that scope I have invested nearly $2000 in the rifle, which I will not be able to use.  I could be a little understanding except that "No Questions Asked" one- year replacement was one of the considerations given when I chose the Bushnell Elite 4200 over the Nikon my brother bought.  My brotherís Nikon Monarch Gold was perfect out of the box and what I will buy next time, the minimal price difference would have been well worth it, and I do think it was both clearer and brighter (better contrast) than the Elite 4200 especially in low light.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 20:37
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I received the replacement scope yesterday, the 18th, 3 weeks to the day after I shipped it.

UPS smashed the box that Bushnell clearly marked Fragile. 

Looking forward to resighting it in my next trip to the range.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2007 at 04:43
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You did well....the scope I sent them under the "no questions asked warranty" was over 6 weeks.

     focus


Edited by Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2007 at 09:25
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Crap happens. At 53 years of age, I have long ago come to realize and accept that I can't always get the corporate world to function on my terms. 

 

If you think you had unreasonable probs with servicing your Bushnell, then check this thread out concerning the scope with the big name and trusted reputation in optics: //http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6693&am p;PN=1

 

 

PS I've had excellent performance with my 1" tubed 6x-24x SF Elite. No, it's not a Nighforce, but is about as good as I could expect at half the price. I'll soon be buying the new 30MM SF Elite.



Edited by Centerfire
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2007 at 19:59
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Originally posted by Centerfire Centerfire wrote:

Crap happens. At 53 years of age, I have long ago come to realize and accept that I can't always get the corporate world to function on my terms. 

 

If you think you had unreasonable probs with servicing your Bushnell, then check this thread out concerning the scope with the big name and trusted reputation in optics: //http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6693&am p;PN=1

 

 

PS I've had excellent performance with my 1" tubed 6x-24x SF Elite. No, it's not a Nighforce, but is about as good as I could expect at half the price. I'll soon be buying the new 30MM SF Elite.

 

Having a few years on you I have learned that good customer service has value.  Being a quality professional I realize that zero defects is a goal not a reality.  In that respect, I would agree 'crap happened'.

 

It was disappointing to see that Nikon has also treated their customers poorly.  I do appreciate that info and will consider it when looking for my next scope. 

 

They spend millions of dollars trying to get our business, although minor in scope, the result to them may only be one lost sale, but I am sure many more will react to this shared knowledge.  

My experience with the customer service from Burris and Leopold has been excellent so far but I will continue to search the site for other feedback.  Quality must extend after the sale.

 

My error was buying on price from an internet store, had I bought from SWFA I am sure the outcome would have been different. 

 

My objective was to share my experience.  The money is quickly taken, we the consumer have the power to tell others which of these companies deserve it because they show respect for the hours of life we spend earning those dollars and treat us as customers by delivering the value we expected when we chose their product.  A no questions asked policy was stated to get my business; they have the responsibility to deliver or lose future business, one customer at a time. 

 

The positive side of this for me is that after spending 34 years in the automotive industry, I am learning that American quality beats Japanese quality in riflescopes.

 

 



Edited by Mastiff54
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2007 at 07:06
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I have a 4200 elite which I wouldn't trade for anything....it tracks like its got eyes and holds POI like all scopes should. Not a whisper of parallax when adjusted properly and great optics. However the company is very poor in the customer relations department and they need to improve their after the sale service to ever truly be a user friendly company.

Heres my two experiences with bushnell.........

First one was with above mentioned 4200 elite, it was shipped with a badly deformed neoprene eye piece cover and I called and asked for a new cover which I would install myself. First call was no problem it will go right out.......month went by and no eye ring, OK called back and was told there was no record of my ever calling or ordering the piece. Start again with a new voice on the phone, OK we'll send it right out....sorry for the mess-up. Two weeks go by and no eye ring so I call again, this time the piece has went to back order......Hmmmmm......OK how long will that take? No idea we'll send it when available, 2 1/2 months to get my little neoprene eye piece. Boy hope I don't have any serious problems with my scope, seeing how fast they are at service problems.

Skip a couple years forward, like that 4200 so much I decide to get a 5x15 3200 with the new "no questions asked warranty" if its nice I'll keep and if not I'll upgrade to another 4200. Well it comes and the eye position at high powers is beyond critical......it has parallax that won't adjust out at any position of the AO. Decision made, it won't work as a load development scope so back it goes for an upgrade. Call bushnell and explain the problem, well we're 12 weeks backed up on scope repairs, that alone is eye popping....... but thats not the purpose of my call, I want the scope upgraded to a 4200 model, can't do that without sending in the scope to a manager to look at. OK whats the difference in $ to upgrade? Can't tell you that till a manager looks at your scope, OK thought it had a no questions asked warranty? Yes but we can't tell you anything till a manager reviews the scope you have. OK how long for that process? 6-8 weeks, 6-8 weeks!!!!!!! what takes so long, will have the scope back in your hands in 4 days, why does it take a manager a month and a half to decide what it will cost me to upgrade? Thats the process.....there are different steps to be taken. OK enough....I want my money back at this point as you don't really care about me upgrading so how long for a refund? At least 8 weeks for all here to "sign off" on your scope, so your telling me that after you get my scope back in about four days you will be hanging me up most of the summer before you cut me a check and let me go get another scope? Thats right.... procedures must be followed. Well I sent it off and waited a month, called and asked where it was in their "procedures" and how much longer it would be, well its part way thru the system and two have signed off so far, still be a while. Had enough..........I posted this same basic post on an optics site on the internet at five weeks..........one week later the check arrived. Coincidence or not? I'll never know, do I hate bushnell? Heck no....but I'm a bit wiser about how their service department works now. Do they compete with leupold or zeiss for quick and efficient service? NO they aren't close yet, no axe to grind with them over their products....like stated above crap happens with all the scope companies. Its HOW they respond if and when something happens that separates the good from the not so good. Elites are a good product with a very slow lack luster service department backing them up......least my two experiences have taught me this. I agree with Mastiffs post above....of course he's going thru the same fun and games I did. I consider service with every purchase as I've been around the track a few times already and its unimportant till YOU are the one having problems and getting shuffled from one voice to another. There is a lot of difference in how different companies treat you after the sale and when you have problems to be resolved. As a side note the last call I asked if I could get another 4200 elite and send the money in 6-8 weeks....you know steps gotta be taken.......I'm sure you can guess the answer to that one........


     focus


Edited by Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2007 at 09:12
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That is why a lot of people buy Leupold, so things I lost of my scope (my fault) arrived in two days express mail at no charge.

 

Duce 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2007 at 09:22
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There are threads on this site concerning bushnell and nikon both involving very slow and unhelpful service. Troubling to think some companies can offer a lifetime warranty and yet fall so short on service. IMHO leupold and zeiss are still top of the service heap in their price class.

    focus


Edited by Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2007 at 15:58
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We do not have a Leupold Service centre in South Africa, but if you catch the post right the scope can get to America, be repaired and be back in about 4 weeks.

We also have our local guys, Lynx, who manufacture a scope allmost on par with Leupold. I sent a scope in for reticule replacement/change and received it back in less then 3 weeks with no charge.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2007 at 16:20
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From what I understand, you can't beat the optical quality of what the Nikon Monarch or Bushnell Elite has to offer for the $600 price range, unless you step way up in price and buy an S&B or Nightforce, etc.  And, if a $975.00 Leupold's 6x-25x optics are the same as a Bushnell's 's 6x-24x optics in clearity and light aspects, then paying $400 more for the Leupold better service department is a heep of cash more to have to pay just for that consideration. (from what I understand, the light gathering ability and optics of the pricey Leupold is no beter then that of the Elite!) 

 

BUT ULTIMATELY, THE POINT IS THAT YOU GUYS NEED TO LEARN HOW TO WORK WITH THE SYSTEM, and not let corporate America stress you out. Trying to make the system work the way you desire it, will only cause you great frustration.

 

ie: I would buy the Bushnell Elite. And in the unlikely case that a defect arises, I would simply send the scope back for a refund. While the Bushnell people are taking their sweet time proceesing my refund, I would already have had another scope purchased and on it's way to me. Remember, Bushnell at least offers you your money back. Nikon does NOT!

 

In the event, that you guys just had to have a Nikon, and got stuck with a Nikon lemmon and the hunting season or a competition is right around the corner.....then you still make lemon aid out of the situation. You simply buy another scope and have it on its way to you in 5 days. When your factory repaired Nikon returns to you months later. You either use it for another rifle, or you stick it on Ebay and take a $60-$75 loss, and GET RID OF IT. Worse things in life happen to you!

 

If you really think that a manufacturer produces a scope that has good chances of arriving defective, and you also know that it has a very poor service department, THEN DON'T BUY IT. This is exactly my attitude about Burris. Not only is there an extreme poor track record of their products not working new out of the box, AND BEING SENT BACK THE SAME WAY AFTER SERVICE, but there are reported instances of customers being told off over the phone. Of course, if you are willing to buy a comparable Leupold and go the $400 difference more for an excellent service department, or buy the $1,200 Nightforce outright, then this is also a very efficient way of avoiding problems. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Edited by Centerfire
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2007 at 15:34
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For some reason I can't do quotes but I'll attempt to answer some of your responses as I've found it to be. For some reason you are picking top shelf scopes to compare with mid priced scopes and saying the dollar difference is what you are paying for the better service. Not so.......you can buy a leupold vxlll or zeiss conquest and be right in your same under $600 range but get better service as a benefit, not a $400 charge. You can at least meet if not beat the optical quality of either above mentioned scope with a conquest......

Now you say we need to learn how to work with the system and accept crappy or slow service as simply one of the great corporate variables. I would suggest that in this day and age of world wide internet and optical chat rooms filled with fellow shooters and hunters that share our common interests....maybe we should excerise a bit of information exchange among each other and when we hit a snag or or poor service let everyone else know. It costs these companies a lot of money to try and snag their share of the market and the adds in every gun mag you open shows how keen the competition is. Don't ever think that scope companies don't know whats being said about their scopes or service on these chat rooms. I have been contacted by companies and asked what they can do to make things right concerning scope or service problems....sightron just contacted me and offered to wave the return cost and even pay return shipping because I mentioned in my post that not all scope companies charge customers to return scopes shipped out defective. I've seen more examples of quality control slipping and letting stinkers out the door that should never have been shipped lately than ever before in years past. I suggest that these venues allow us to actually change the system by comparing different companies service and showing the problem areas for them to change if they want to continue to get our hard earned money for their product. I find posts like this "stresses out" the scope company a whole lot more than us....in fact if you stay calm and factual and simply let the rest of the world know how you were treated and in what time frame, it says a lot more than a crazed rant ever will. In the last several years I've seen scope makers respond to what customers want......add lifetime warranties to sweeten the deal......redesign scope models to copy whos leading the pac....etc. The keyboard is mightier than the sword and can move things that may seem unmovable. It also helps when you see several different people getting the same treatment as it shows a pattern with certain companies. I'll finish by saying we can get equal quality product without putting up with poor service.....and the companies giving poor service know this ....they will only continue if they can get away with it and not lose market. These forums help them not to get away with it (at least not without everyone knowing it) and can cost them market....one buyer at a time. When a company plays around returning my $ why should I have to dig out more and let them take their sweet time? Its my $ and as soon as they have their scope back....I should get my $ back in equally fair time. I didn't get to play around when they wanted their $ at purchase time did I? When I get a good scope or have a pleasant scope service experience I will tell it to the world.....when I get a bad one or a bad customer experience I will also let everyone know.

     focus


Edited by Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2007 at 00:01
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Focus,

You're not going to get a Zeiss Conquest 6x-24x SF 50mm scope or a Leupold  for $550-$600 shipped. For that price, the Elite or Monarch has no competition. And I wouldn't consider a Sightron, or Burris in that price range any competition to those two major players The quality and features at this price just can't be found elswhere. Heck, they even include a sunshade. I'm simply saying that if you want to get as much scope as you can buy for $550,  then you're going to be dealing with two huge companies and their less then desireable service departments. Like I already said. Crap happans, and I can work around it. I'm still not sure how much better the optics are in a Conquest or Leupold for $300-$350 more anyway. I think your getting a nicer name, but no better optics. (Yea, but for $350 more I get the kind of service department that would make you proud.) 

 

Yes, the internet is great for exchanging ideas, information, and feedback. And, "The pen is mightier then the sword"........and whatever other idealistic drivel we can quote here (yawn). It's doubtful that the Bushnell and Nikon Companies will show any change in the course of action during the sale of the next few thousand scopes in the coming weeks or even months. It may never change. Perhaps they are very content with the amount of sales and profit that they do. 

 

As a final analogy, you know....

City Hall might eventually change and get some politicians in there who might really know how to fix the roads. But in the meantime, while you argue the virtues of how things ought to be and why you're in your right to fight City Hall because of the bumpy ride you got......... I just prefer to drive around the potholes so I can get home, eat dinner, and do some reloading before I go to bed and get up for work in the morning.

 

 We've both made our point, and obviously we have differen't perspectives and approaches to dealing with factory service problems.

You can have the last word. I'm outa here    

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2007 at 05:20
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Well since the thread was about a 4x16x40 elite scope.....guess I shouldn't have thought that was what we were talking about. Did you just pick a 6.5x20 power scope just for your comparison? Why did your first post of $600 change to $550-600 in the second? I just need to see with what scope we're working with in this comparison, I just bought a 4.5x14x44 side focus conquest for $589 brand new last week, so it seems that they are in your $ frame. Interesting that when I make a point..... its drivel..... but I see no facts to disprove it in any way.In fact I see you admitting that maybe things will change......and believe me all things change with some pressure exerted. Another point would be that the big sky sightron and signiture select burris are also in the same class and price range of scopes we're discussing....but thats right you don't consider burris. Thats one you seem to have had trouble with....or at least the brand that stresses you out from your above post. Scope companies hope everyone takes your attitude, they are depending on it in fact. Yes things slowly change........otherwise nikon wouldn't be giving a lifetime warranty now. And remember......no company is content with their current market share....if you really believe that....I got some prime swampland to sell ya'.....or maybe a real swell scope

     focus


Edited by Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2007 at 06:25
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In South Africa the 50mm Bushnell seems not yet available. However, the Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40 retails for R5699.00 ($814), whilst the Leupold VX111 4,5-14x40 retails for R5509 ($787). So price is not a factor, only scope quality and after-sale service.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2007 at 13:47
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Now I know why the overwelming majority of 1000 yard benchrest shooters use either Leupold or Nightforce.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2007 at 19:56
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Originally posted by Centerfire Centerfire wrote:

BUT ULTIMATELY, THE POINT IS THAT YOU GUYS NEED TO LEARN HOW TO WORK WITH THE SYSTEM, and not let corporate America stress you out. Trying to make the system work the way you desire it, will only cause you great frustration. 

 ......, I would simply send the scope back for a refund. While the Bushnell people are taking their sweet time proceesing my refund, I would already have had another scope purchased and on it's way to me. ........

.......You simply buy another scope and have it on its way to you in 5 days. When your factory repaired Nikon returns to you months later. You either use it for another rifle, or you stick it on Ebay and take a $60-$75 loss, and GET RID OF IT. ........

If you really think that a manufacturer produces a scope that has good chances of arriving defective, and you also know that it has a very poor service department, THEN DON'T BUY IT.

 

Centerfire - do you actually read and believe the "drivel" you write?  

We are working the system- communicating to fellow hobbyists (their potential customers) our lessons learned.

Will this change the big companies? - Maybe and that is good enough.

No stress or frustration- disappointment in having my hunt compromised, maybe.  Focus - have you lost any sleep over this?

 

However, the most enlightening comments were regarding your unlimited availability of cash. 

My guess is that most of us "simply" do not have $500 - $600 or more to float around while "working the system, to then throw $65 - $75 away.

Had we known that the customer service was that bad we would not have bought the scopes.  My  mistake was not researching further. 

Hopefully Focus and I have been able to prevent some one else from the same negative experience.  758 have read these so far, we may have been successful with out ridiculing other shooters who have been taken advantage of.

Thanks for sharing your experience Focus, I hope we have helped some one else who is probably not at the top of corporate America with all that money to burn. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2007 at 20:38
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 ....are you done? Good. It's reassuring to know that through your efforts, service department delays and problems are fixed now starting tomorrow.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 05:31
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Now you wern't really done and out of here were you?  Starting tomorrow things will be just like today.....companies begrudgingly changing policies slowly to retain their customer base while making as much profit as possible on each and every scope sale. I can give you facts to support my contention........you however just get nasty and demeaning with no facts but some badly flawed scope prices and comparisons. Do you by some chance own a scope company? 

I sleep fine and will continue to hold any scope companies feet to the fire online to help improve some of the poor service being given out for scopes that fail to meet the mark as shipped. Agree 100% Mastiff....its how we make scope companies take notice......


Edited by Focus
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