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bushnell earns military contract

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 13:10
coyote95 View Drop Down
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bushnell awarded contract for a special version of the elite 15-45x 60mm, the new contract is a  continuation of previous purchases that bushnell has been fulfilling for the u.s gov. the only thing that looks different from civilian model is the grease used inside scope.i have a older B&L elite fix 20x 60mm that i'm thinking about up grading to the 15-45x. i think this should be a pretty good spotter for the money. is there any opinions on this subject?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2009 at 13:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2009 at 12:20
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The basic differences between the consumer and the military 60mm Elites are:
  1. The civilian scope uses a different grade of grease in all its moving parts.  The grease on the military version is thicker, making it more durable, especially in truly harsh environments, but it also makes the focus less smooth and thus a little less precise.
  2. The military version has been "de-badged" meaning that it has no name or model indications on the rubber armoring.
  3. The military version comes without the accessories (see-through case, etc.) that are standard for the civilian version.

As a general rule, the 60mm Elite is a very good, extremely compact, and incredibly durable scope.  Its optics are not the best on the planet, but they are still quite good.  Eye relief in this scope is rather lacking, which can be a problem for eyeglass wearers.

All things considered, and especially considering the $250 that the military scope normally sell for, it would be hard to go wrong with one of these little spotters.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2009 at 00:50
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Doesn't that just mean they are the lowest acceptable bid?  Not necessarely the best spotting scope...  Something to think about.... NV Hunter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2009 at 19:20
lucznik View Drop Down
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Originally posted by NV Hunter NV Hunter wrote:

Doesn't that just mean they are the lowest acceptable bid?  Not necessarely the best spotting scope...  Something to think about.... NV Hunter


No, it doesn't "just" mean that.  Certainly where they came in during the bid process has some bearing, but the military does establish the design expectations first and then sends out the request for bids.  Bidders have to meet (or exceed) the project design specs to be considered at all.

Leupold has submitted and won military contracts in the past with their Golden Ring FLPs.  Those scopes are legendary among hunters, outfitters, etc.

The 60mm Elite also has a rock-solid reputation.  Zeiss or Leica they ain't and they certainly have their limitations, but they are more than capable hunting optics that will serve for many years.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/09/2009 at 14:22
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You are correct, they meet the spec established.... that's all.  Stiener did the same thing a few years ago... Sir, do you consider them in the same catagory as a Leica or Zeiss?  My eyes tell me they are not.... but they meet the criteria and are the lowest acceptiable bid. Many folks fall into the trap of thinking the military only uses "the best" equipment....  available.  It's not necessarily so.... NV Hunter.    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/09/2009 at 14:42
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Originally posted by NV Hunter NV Hunter wrote:

You are correct, they meet the spec established.... that's all.

I seriously doubt you have access to the actual military tests and their results to be able to make this statemtent.  You have no idea where this product scored in the spectrum of those tests.  It may have just barely made the cut and it just as easily may have positively excelled.  You have no evidence to support your supposition at all.

Originally posted by NV Hunter NV Hunter wrote:

Sir, do you consider them in the same catagory as a Leica or Zeiss?  
No, I do not (as I already stated).  But they are a lot better than you would apparently give them credit.  Actual optical differences between these products are not very large at all. What's more, you will pay a HUGE premium to have the name Leica or Zeiss on your scope that has nothing to do with optical performance and everything to do with brand prestige/snobbery.  Not everyone can or will pay for such a "privilege," nor do they need to to enjoy quality equipment.  The person using one of these 60mm Elites need not feel embarrased or ashamed to sit right along side those who have spent more (often unreasonably so) on their gear.

The 60mm Bushnell Elite is what it is, which is a very good, budget-class spotter which has proven very rugged and effective for hunters, birders, outdoor enthusiasts, and the military for many years.  It is well worth its very modest price.





Edited by lucznik - May/12/2009 at 17:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2009 at 10:23
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It's good we all can have our oun opinions...  My opinion is based my expereince with quality optics and friends in the military who have purchased thier own binoculars rather than use what is issued to them in actual combat.  (Desert Storm)

 

My expereince is that I have used "European Optics" since the late 1980's.  My Lieca's have been my companion on multiple hunts every year since I purchased them.  They have not needed any repairs or need to be recoendtioned.  They are ready for my next adventure. Most of my friends thought I was crazy to spend so much money on a pair of binoculars…In the 20+ years I have had them, they are the CHEAPEST piece of gear I have purchased.  Most of my buddies have gone through a new pair of binoculars every couple of years and have spent more $$$ over the years than I did… and they have not had the joy of using a truly quality binocular all these years.  I guess it’s like politics… some are Democrats some are Republicians and we look at the same situation totally differently - but I respect your right to have a different opinion than I have.    NJS      

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2009 at 13:08
lucznik View Drop Down
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I think that's great that you have had so much satisfaction with your Leicas.  Certainly the stiff initial investment, if not later compounded with lots of "upgrading," can amortize out to be quite reasonable over time.  That doesn't make it any easier for everyone to make that stiff intitial investment.
 
I'm not personally a very good example as I had for quite a few years something of an insatiable appetite to see "what else is available" no matter how satisfactory my current gear was.  Thus, I did a lot of that aforementioned "upgrading" and other trading, most of it entirely unnecessary.   As a result, I am guilty of having spent (over the course of many years) far more money getting new stuff than I would have spent had I purchased a so-called "Alpha" glass and stuck with it. I think I have (mostly) overcome that problem lately.  At least, there is nothing on the market right now that is causing a hole to burn in my wallet.
 
My dad is a pretty good example though...
 
Now to start with let me take a guess that, in the mid-late 80's your Leica probably cost you something like $900 or so.  (I base this on the fact that the B&L Elite was the first binocular to cross the $1000 price threshold and that was somewhere in this same general timeframe.)
 
During that same time period, my dad was using first a Porro prism Brunton Eterna 7x42 that he picked up for $150 on closeout from a hardware store that was going out of business.  Around 1997 or 1998 he recieved for his birthday an 8x42 Pentax DCF WP that cost my siblings and me $300.  Throughout this entire time he also has used Bushnell Discoverer spotting scope that he again got on closeout for $100 from a sporting good's store that had it as an in-store demo unit.   All of these optics remain in perfect working condition and my dad has no desire whatsoever to "upgrade" to anything else.
 
So for a total investment (and most of it not even his) of $550 my dad has had binoculars and a spotting scope that have more than served their required purposes for roughly the same 20+ years. That definitely amortizes out to be a bit less expensive than those Leicas, especially when you consider that, to be a direct comparison, you would need to add in the cost of your spotter.
 
The really interesting part is that I have routinely seen my dad find more animals, find them more quickly, and evaluate them more accurately with his budget-class glass than others (including myself) who were using much more expensive gear.   This leads me to consider that it is often the observer, not the instrument, that makes the most difference.
 
Budget-class gear can be high quality.  This is not true in all cases nor is it true for every product and it certainly requires much more care in the purchasing process than would be necessary with higher-dollar glass.  However, such optics only become "more expensive" when people like your buddies (and me Bandito) get a "bur under [our] saddles" and go out trying new stuff all the time.  The fact that we do so however, is not necessarily directly attributable to the price-level of the optics we are buying.  I know people who do this same kind of "upgrading" with Alpha optics as well.  Needless to say, they have a lot more disposable income (or perhaps just a greater tolerance for debt) than I.


Edited by lucznik - May/13/2009 at 13:10
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