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Burris/Zeiss/Swarovski/Kahles?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2007 at 13:55
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Optics GrassHopper
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I hate to initiate one of those "which is better Contests", but I'm looking for some experienced opinions between  a few scopes.  I've searched the site quite a bit and read many "comparisons".  My hunting is going to entail white tail deer in Wisconsin and mule deer and Elk in Colorado (and hopefully more adventures to follow).  Scope will be mounted on Remington 30-06.  I've been reading all these great opinions for months and have narrowed my choices down to 4.  I'm sure some will have different suggestions of other brands, which is fine and welcomed, but I'm primarily interested in the ones below.  I read the post that generally graded most on a "scale" which was helpful, but if you please would, how about some additional comments on the following. I know the varaible mag and objective might be a little over kill, but seem to make sense at least to me.  Here they are:

 

1. Burris Black Diamond 4-16 x 50         &nbs p;      ($600)   30 mm tube

2. Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10 x 50         &nbs p;             ($650)   1" tube

3. Swarovski American Riflescope 4-12 x 50  ($1088) 1" tube

4. Kahles CL 4-12 x 52         &nbs p;         &nbs p;         &nbs p;  ($1068) 1" tube (first plane focus?)

 

Obviously my price range is $600-1088, preferably the lower the better!  I'm trying to argue to myself that the others are worth the extra cost over the Burris.(?)

I guess my questions are several; Would it be much of a sacrafice for the Burris in optics considering the 30mm tube with the favorable lower cost?  Would the last three have significantly better noticible optics in the field?  In general, (perhaps I need to go back to optics 101) if the scope is sighted in at a distance, say 100yds on HIGH mag, will the accuracy be altered if shot on a lower mag?  ie. -What is Kahles referring to in their description "1st plane focus)?

I appreciate your recommendations and comments (past and future) to my multitude of questions!

A purchase is in order soon!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2007 at 13:57
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Optics GrassHopper
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Sorry about the "&nbs p", i put some spaces in between to line things up better and the post inserted letters instead of spaces, please disregard the "&nbs p"
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2007 at 14:40
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Steadyshot -

 

1 - I would go with either Swarovski or Kahles.  Both are noticably better than the Conquest.  You simply get what you pay for (or, what you deserve). :-)

 

2 - Your accuracy will not be altered relative to magnification with these scopes.

 

3 - 1st vs. 2nd focal plane is a somewhat more important distinction.  It has to do with whether the recticle appears to change size or not.  Below is a good explantion you can get on other sites:

 

"Variable-magnification optics can have a first focal plane (FFP) or second focal plane (SFP) reticle configuration. A first-focal (FFP) reticle's features always demarcate the same angular measurement regardless of the scope magnification setting. The reticle will appear to "shrink" and "grow" with the target area as the magnification is adjusted. A second focal plane (SFP) reticle demarcates angular distance that depends on the scope magnification setting. The reticle appears to stay constant as the target area shrinks and grows as the magnification is adjusted.

 

Hope this helps.  I'm curious where in WI you deer hunt.  I'm in Buffalo County...

 

ND2000

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2007 at 16:49
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i am looking hard at a kahles kx 3-9x42 with 4a but dont know much about their customer service/support like i do about zeiss, leupold, and swarovski
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2007 at 17:35
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Kahles and Swaro will both have better optics......they are the next step up in 1" scopes. Will that difference be worth the extra $400? Only you can decide that question. I would choose the conquest over the burris and let the wallet decide whether or not you want to take the next step up....

     focus


Edited by Focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2007 at 12:17
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ND2000-

Thanks for the advise,,,,,,Grant county!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2007 at 14:02
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Kahles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2007 at 15:38
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2nd on the Kales, for hunting the new swaro is great with the wider field of vision at the same power as other scopes & like most good things is more money. http://www.swfa.com/c-978-swarovski-z6-riflescopes.aspx

 

  Duce

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2007 at 16:38
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Is there any real difference between the "Kahles KX 1" and the "CL 1" without the multizero?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2007 at 16:44
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good question
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2007 at 16:52
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Slightly better glass and optical desighn in the CL, they are not the same scopes but both a tremendous value when compared to thier competitors.

 

CL Lenses:

AMV Coating
KAHLES proprietary AMV coating - optimized for maximum transmission between 500 and 540 nanometers for the ultimate lowest light performance.

 

KX Lenses:

 

AMV Coating
Optimized KAHLES AMV multi-layer lens coatingprovides close to 100% light transmission.



Edited by Trinidad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2007 at 15:47
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Not to throw the proverbial turd in the punchbowl, but Conquest is a good scope and a great value.

 

I have Conquests on several guns and have never been disappointed.  They aren't QUITE as bright as the top-tier scopes, but they are very good.  Never have I missed a shot due to the scope limiting my hunting.

 

Burris makes a decent scope but doesn't belong on that list (obviously, with the price difference.)

 

I'd say go for the very best and buy the Swaro if you can - if you don't you will always wish you had.  But, if you can't pony up the $$ for the Swaro, get the Conquest and spend the extra $$ on ammo and practice.

 

I can't say much for Kahles other than I hear good things.  Never owned, probably will eventually.  BUT, I just faced the same list, same situation, same conundrum, and I have a Swaro on the way - should be here Monday.

 

Buy the Swaro and never look back; or buy the Conquest and know that it was still a very good choice.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2007 at 16:13
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Originally posted by steadyshot steadyshot wrote:

Is there any real difference between the "Kahles KX 1" and the "CL 1" without the multizero?

 

CL line, with the exception of the 2-7X36 has side parallax focus; KX does not.  Kahles says the CL has slightly better resolution, but due to optical design factors other than glass or coatings, because they have the same glass & AMV coatings.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2007 at 16:28
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Here is another geat read on the KX vs the CL.

 

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6260&KW=ka hles+kx&PN=0&TPN=2

 

Which Swarovski did you pick up RC?

 

 



Edited by Trinidad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2007 at 17:12
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http://www.swfa.com/pc-8616-278-swarovski-3-10x42-american-r iflescope.aspx

 

 

I like the reticle, it has those cool lines on it.  I don't know what the hell they mean, but people will think I am tactical and stuff!

 

 

I'll let you know what I think.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2007 at 17:30
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That's a very good scope, RC.  I have that model, but with the plex rather than that trick reticle you're getting, and I like it a lot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2007 at 17:31
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Nice hunting scope RC. Like that reticle more than the TDS.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2007 at 21:00
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High hopes, my firends, high hopes!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2007 at 11:03
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  • You all have been extremely helpful, Many thanks-

One last question, I've decided to go with the Zeiss Conquest, tried it out last weekend and really thought the optics were outstanding.  Compared it to the Burris and definately outperformed it, noticible difference!  I also compared it to the Swarvo, Good run for the money, as expected, the Swarvo, IMO, slightly better optics but for me not justified just yet (and these comparosons were only in the store, perhaps not due justice). 

In regards to the Zeiss Conquest I was trying to determine which might be the better choice, either the 3.5-10 X50 or the 3.5 -10 X44.  The 44mm objective claims to be the best in it's class for field of view, weight, etc.  Logic would seem the 50mm objective would let a little more light in for dusk and twilight, which it claims as well.  My main question(s) are would it be a much higher and cumbersome mount and would it be a better choice overall?  Lastly, any suggestions on a mount and rings for this setup on a 30-06 remington 7600 series?

Thanks again!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2007 at 11:18
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i would opt for the 50mm myself - it's only 6mm bigger than the 44 - so balance would be about the same.

 

if THAT is a concern - get the 40mm, it will do you fine.

 

great choice, great scope.

 

let us know how you like it - i have always used leupold mounts and have been very pleased.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2007 at 11:23
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+1 on Jons 50mm advice.

Edited by Trinidad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2007 at 18:32
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I was leaning more towards the 50mm myself, really only $50 more in cost, just didn't know if there would be a higher mounting issues, disadvantage or problem. 

Thanks for making me comfortable in my decision,,,,,,I'll probably order it in the next week, so any other comments still welcome, otherwise thanks again guys!

Best regards-

Andy

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2007 at 19:07
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Well, I am going to put my 2 cents in and suggest something less expensive, like a Bushnell Elite 4200, Nikon Monarch or Sightron SII.  I just cannot justify the expense of the mega dollar scopes.  No, I do not own any of them and yes I have compared them in sporting goods stores.  Yes, I am going to get the good ole, well you do not know how they compare in low light situations.  Well, I have owned enough cheap and semi-expensive scopes and have formed my own opinions without being swayed by, got to have what the Jone's have, that I have learned that I do not have to spend the nose bleed prices for these scopes.  With the techology that exists today, a rifle scope can be made much better than 20 years ago at a fraction of the price.  I can afford to buy a couple of these scopes, but I own far too many rifles to put them on every one.  Where I live, I have seen deer taken at almost complete darkness with a 10 year old Bushnell and 10 year old Tasco, both of which were never sighted in since they were mounted.  One owned by my nephew and the othe by my future son in law.  I was there for both shots, at about 125 yards, with both deer dropping where they stood.  Now, if you want to spend that kind of money, more power to you, but these guys take deer all season with these scope and have done so from dawn to dark.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2007 at 19:13
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Dolphin -

Next time keep the change...nobody asked about those opinions in this thread.  I'm quite confident steadyshot made the right decision for HIM when narrowing down his choices.

ND2000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2007 at 21:57
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ND2000,

Thanks for keeping the thread on track!  I specifically started it with a few scopes because there could be a whole host of "How abouts".  As you mentioned, it's about what it best for YOU.  As an Optometrist, I've spent the last 15 years looking through quality lenses and microscopes, not to mention prescribing them.  Zeiss makes some of the best lenses I've looked through so I have no doubt I've made a good choice!  Just wanted some suggestions on the few I mentioned from individuals that have more experience and comparisons with "Scope" point of view.  Sure one could take down a deer at 125yds with many other scopes, I've done it myself with my cheap Tasko I currently have, obviously as life goes on we deserve, or at least like to get, better!

Cheers-

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