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Burris Vs Nikon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2005 at 21:37
chuckkilla View Drop Down
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 I posted a while back about the differences in nikon scopes but i have another question for you, If you had the choice to choose between the Nikon monarch 6.5-20 and the burris fullfeild II 6.5-20 which would you choose and why. I considered the signature select models but the lack of internal adjustment rules them out. Which has the sharper optics? Who is brighter and who has the best ability to see feild of depth? Who has the better extras with there scopes?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2005 at 22:56
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Generally speaking this is not an apples to aples comparison since Nikon is a fair bit more expensive than Fullfield II.

As far as depth of field goes, at magnification this high it is usually somewhere between nil and zilch no matter how much money you spend. 

These scopes have similar brightness.  Nikon has slightly better resolution, but the difference is very small.

Burris Signature Select and Sightron S2 in 6-24x variety will both be opticaly better that Monarch and Fullfield II. 

If adjustment range is a concern, consider using a 20MOA base or Burris Signature rings (I use these) with offset inserts. Generally, you are not going to get a lot of adjustment out of high magnification scopes (especially with 1" tubes).

 

I recently spent some time comparing these scopes (I needed one to for my Savage 22-250 varmint gun), so I've looked through these, Bushnell Elite 4200 and Leupold VXIII side by side.  I was set on getting a Sightron, but saw a deal on Ebay for Fullfield II (ended up getting it for ~$250 shipped). 

 

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2005 at 14:12
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The tapered base is out because I already have the base picked out for the gun. I am planning on using the signature rings but even so the select series only has 20 MOA in adjustment compared to the 38 of the nikon and 30 of the fullfeild II. The fullfeild has 1/4 inch clicks and even so only manages 30 minutes. Why is that? Do they use the same "larger internal lenses" like the signature seires? I wanted to look at the fullfeild but when i went to the only place that carries them the display model was junk. He and I agreed that it was bad so I'm not going to make any fast and hard conclusions off of that one visit. I have heard nothing but good about the nikons and very little bad about the burris. The sightrons need a cosmetic makeover IMO. They aren't exactly good looking but I will have to try and find one to take a look through it. The thing that irritates me most about my 6-24 4200 is the lack of internal adjustment. I run out before I get to 250 with my HMR. The next scope I buy will have enough to get me as far as i want/can shoot with a 223. i just need to figure out what that scope is.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2005 at 14:52
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Why do yo need such high magnification with a 17HMR? 

How far do you plan to shoot with a 223?

How big are the targets?

 

If you insist on using such a high magnification model, Sightron has 40" of adjustment and it has better adgustments than either Burris or Nikon.

 

Going to a 30mm tube (Burris Black Diamond or Sightron S3) will take you to about 50" I think.

 

A few general recommendations though (just suggestion, these may not work for your situation):

 

1) For rimfires it is best to use a trajectory compensating reticle like Ballistic Plex or Ballistic Mildot.

 

2) Most scopes have adjustments that are not especially repeatable far away from the center of the adjustment range and do not scale well at the edges (i.e. 1/4" adjustments become something else near th end of the adjustment range).  Two notable exception (in variable scopes) are Weaver Grand Slam and Sightron S2/S3 scopes.

 

3) High magnification scopes are somewhat overrated.  Even for varminting 16x is usually sufficient (4-16x42 scopes typically have 45-55" of adjustment with 1" tube).  20x-24x top end is better suited for benchrest shooting than for varminting.

 

If you are not trying to shoot varmints or itty bitty groups.  10x magnification is sufficient to shoot man-size targets to a thousand yards.  For something like that, there is a great variety of 3-9x or 3-12x scopes.  Also fixed 10x Super Sniper is not a bad way to go for distance shooting either.  If you like the comfort of a variable, Sightron S2 3-12x42 scope with MilDot may just be the ticket (80" of adjustment with 1" tube).

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2005 at 10:06
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The reason why i use such High magnification on a 17 is the fact that i shoot birds off the tops of barns. The owners don't want me putting holes in the barns so i use the high x's to make sure im hitting where im supposed to. It may seen silly but when your talking a 2 inch target from 50 to 125 yds it begins to make more sense. i also use it quite alot from the bench so i wanted sort of a dual purpose scope. On bigger targets such as fox or racoons I usually use 10x or 12x from a fixed position and 6x when moving. The 223 will be my long range varmint buster. Targets will be up to the size of a coyote but the main diet will probably be stationary crows and pigeons at a distance. Ranges to 300 most likley but eventually I would like to see if i can strech it out to 500 or so. This will be another dual purpose rifle that will see a fair amount of time spent at the bench. The main reason I am so concerned about the internal adjustment is the above statement about the clicks not being accurate at the edges. I jumped without looking with the bushnell last time and don't want to make the same mistake again. I am happy with everything about my 4200 except the lack of internal adjustment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2005 at 02:31
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I see what you are talking about.  For your case Sightron S2 or Weaver Grand Slam would be the best choices due to better adjustments.  Personally, I think Sightron is a better scope and it does have a fair amount of adjustment range.  You may also want to consider a MilDot reticle and use it for holdover when possible. 

Burris Signature rings with offset inserts should help also.

 Alternatively you could try to forgo using adjustment turrets so much and use a trajectory compensating reticle like Ballistic MilDot in Burris scopes.

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2005 at 04:44
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I second the Ballistic Plex for a .17 HMR. I got a Burris Signature Select 4-16x44mm scope on mine and it works great out to about 300 yards. This is about as far as I would shoot with a rimfire.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2005 at 20:56
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 I never realisticaly shoot at actual animals at 200 yd +. I don't think the HMR has enough left at that distance to make good solid kills. I only shoot at clays and such in the gravel pit for fun. When i go back on tuesday i will check out the weaver and the sightrons. When I finally buy one i will ask to take them all outside and see what i like most.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2005 at 22:12
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Let us know which one you decided on.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2005 at 13:53
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I went today and looked at the burris and the sightron scopes sportsmans wearhouse had. They had not replaced the bad 6.5-20 so I asked to look at the 4.5-14 they had to get an idea. That scope was also foggy. I looked through a black diamond and it had no problems image wise but itwas ugly IMO. It had no target turrets (on a 4-16 you would think there should be) and the side focus was to small for my tastes. The sightron had better image quality but they are still ugly and the 720 degree A/O is a real turn off to me. I got lost with it in the store let alone in a shooting situation.I looked at a weaver GS 6.5-20 with the varmint reticle. It lacks target turrets like i want but otherwise seemed like a good scope. The dot is wee bitty. I have some issues with the oversized rubber A/O and power rings but once I started looking through it it made sense as to why they did what they did with the numbers. Will the numbers rub off after prolonged use? It and the nikon monarch 6.5-20 are the last two scopes of my original list. I can get a nikon for 430 and a GS for  340. I like the nikon more but 100 dollars is nothing to sneeze at so I guess I have some thinking ahead.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2005 at 04:08
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I do not care for Weaver's oversized power adjustment rings either. Given a choice between a Nikon Monarch or a Weaver Grand Slam I would pick the Nikon for sure.  The Nikon has better optics and just plain looks better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2005 at 11:51
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 I kind of figured that would be the case. I did actually find a sightron I like though so want to inquire about it.Has anyone seen or used this scope?

product_SII-SS-6520X50MD.jpg

Its sightrons Si-II 6.5-20x50 with side focus. I have never heard of this model and no one carries them. Is it new? The only place I found was (competitor). At 519 it didn't seem like that bad of a deal. I can even get a mildot like I want. And since it doesn't have the A/O bell the 50mm objective won't make it sit to high on a gun. The Si-II optics seemed to be of quality and I have emailed sightron for more info.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2005 at 12:06
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These are  new models that just came out. I have not seen one yet.  I believe ranburr saw them at Houston NRA show.

 

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2005 at 13:03
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Let us know about the Sightron. Been very curious about the same scope for target/ varmint. Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2005 at 17:16
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If I go that route ( I probably will) I will let you in on if its good or not. i recieved my new catelog today as well. Side focus down to 50yds, 45 min of 1/4 inch elevation and windage. length is 14.6 inches and weighs 20.5 ozs. The outside bell diameter is 2.09 inches ( as a reference, the outside diameter on my bushnell 4200 6-24x40 is just over 2 inches) This means i can have 50mm optics and  40 mm mounting options. it has low profile target turrets that can be reset by means of a small allen wrench (thats what the picture looks like anyways) Light transmission is stated at 99% per lens surface. i would assume it goes into the mid 90's for total.

Edited by chuckkilla
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2005 at 21:40
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That is a nice looking scope. It looks like Sightron may have a winner here. Let us know your thoughts once you get to try it out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2005 at 00:11
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Yeah-- i'd like to hear about it too.

 

I have a 9 twist 26" Hart-barrelled AR in 223 AI, that does pretty well on coyotes to about 500 yds. or so. I'm using the 4.5-14X with Ball. Plex reticle, and add clicks beyond the last stadia's zero. BUT, if i were gonna do it again to get the most from the 223, i'd stick with the same twist/barrel length, as i like the performance of the 69 Nosler Comp on varmints, and go with a Leupold with the new TMR reticle, and add clicks from the mil reticle's lower post as a zero again as before. Here's the site for the TMR--

 

http://www.leupold.com/products/reticles_TMR.htm

 

Take a look at it-- .5 mil line stadia should provide an excellent accurate ballistic reticle system.



Edited by sscoyote
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2005 at 19:14
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I was going to go with the sightron but i decided against it when i found a Nikon monarch 6.5-20 at a very good price. Should be here on monday, I can't wait to get this thing put together. Maybe for the next one
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2005 at 23:59
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Nikon Monarch is a good choice. I would like to try out a Sightron scope on my next rig, for sure.
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