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Burris B-plex or Nikon BDC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 14:35
ksbarter View Drop Down
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Buying a scope for a Savage 12FV (Heavy barrel) .243.  Varmint and other smallish furry things.

 

Was headed straight for the Burris with b-plex when I saw Nikon's new BDC.Confused  So my question is how do these scopes compare as far as image quality?  Don't mind spending the extra $130 to get a brighter image, (assuming $40 for the spotter on ebay), but obviously if the step up in quality is very small I can find something else to spend it on.Big smile I have a Burris FFII and a Conquest in 3x9, and the Burris is fine, but it is no Conquest, but I can't spend the $$ for the Conquest in this power range. So hoping for some opinions on these scopes

 

As far as the hold over systems I assume either will work fine after some range time to chart the marks. 

 

If I have overlooked something at these price levels with a bullet drop reticle please let me know.

 

New Nikon 5.5-16.5x44 Monarch UCC Riflescope
  • Matte
  • BDC
  • 1"
  • Adjustable Objective
SWFA: $429.95

 

or

 

Burris 4.5-14x42 Fullfield II Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Ballistic Plex
  • 1"
  • Hunter Knobs
  • Adjustable Objective
  • Free Burris Landmark Compact 12-24x50 Spotter w/ Purchase

or

 

Burris 4-16x44 Signature Select Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Ballistic Plex
  • 1"
  • Adjustable Objective

Thanks

Kent

SWFA: $438.95

SWFA: $339.95

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 16:16
catusbill View Drop Down
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Nikon BDC reticles is new this year, we haven't heard any members reporting any results. But, my experience is that Nikon is worth more than Burris....until you get into the black diamond line. I would recommend the Buckmaster 6-18 X 40mm BDC or the Target Dot. I have bought them for under $400.00, I believe SWFA has then for $359.00 Both the BDC and Target Dot come with two sets of turret knobs and you can dial them with confidence.

I like to dial my target dot after I have ranged a few objects to correspond to my load that I had plotted at the range. Real easy to put the Dot on a dog and know your going to hit him in the bread basket.



Edited by catusbill
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 17:36
koshkin View Drop Down
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Nikon's BDC reticle is pretty new and I have not had a chance to try it yet.  I have some reservations about using 2MOA circles for aiming points, but I'll form a better opinion once I try it out.

Between Burris and Nikon, a lot will depend on personal preference (cheaptrick, feel free to chime in at any point).  I personally prefer Burris but all four of these scope lines are pretty good bets.

Buckmaster competes with Fullfield II and I think FFII is a slightly better scope as far as glass is concerned.  There are also more options within the FFII line.

Monarch competes against the Signature Select line.  My opinion here is the same as above: I think Signature Select is a bit better optically.  It also offers a 4x erector system vs a 3x erector system for Monarchs.  However, if weight is a concern, comparable Monarchs tend to be a bit lighter.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 18:26
ksbarter View Drop Down
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Weight not an issue, a few ounces on a heavy barrel rifle not going to make all that much difference.

 

If the BDC uses 2MOA circles, then at 400 yards the circles would cover 8 inches? That does seem less than ideal.  Are the Burris 1moa dots?

 

And although I know many people more knowledgeable than I prefer target turrets and dialing for distance, holdover just seems simpler to me.

 

 

Thanks for the opinions, would love to hear more.

 

Kent

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 19:38
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Personally, I would like to see you go with the BDC and give us a range report...

Guinea pig...

 

Seriously, I'd go with the Sig. Select or the Monarch out of that group.

 

I think your power range is good to go too, Kent. At least in my opinion.

Too much magnifacation = mirage.

 

How far do you foresee your self shooting??

 

All those scopes have 1" tubes and suffer from a lack of up, which may or may not be an issue for you since your shooting a .223.  

Just something to think about. You could always get a canted rail and fix that.

 

Does the Sig have a side focus or AO??

Being a lefty, I always like the AO because I'm able to correct parallax and still keep my finger near the trigger.

I also feel AO's are superior for correcting parallax as well.

Monarch has an AO.

 

I'll take the Monarch, of course....

 

That's all I got, Kent.

 

Edit to add:

Looks like the Sig. has an AO too. 



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 20:03
ksbarter View Drop Down
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The rifle is in .243 and I find myself pestering jacks and yotes at ranges over 500 yds at times, I am in So. Ariz. and do a lot of walking and glassing. 

 

I'm not sure I follow the one inch tube issue, would the drop of the bullet be more than the field of view in a one inch tube at full power?  I plan to zero crosshair at 200 yds and then figure out what the dots or circles below represent.  Wouldn't moving to a 30mm scope, jump me up in price significantly?

 

And I can definately tell I have moved away from the FFII for better glass.Smile

 

All are AO and none are side focus.

 

Leaning towards Sig. Select, what Koshkin pointed out about the circles being big, kinda worries me now. But first to go see what there is in 30mm, I would have to go get new rings too.

 

Thanks

Kent

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 20:43
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ksbarter ksbarter wrote:

The rifle is in .243 and I find myself pestering jacks and yotes at ranges over 500 yds at times, I am in So. Ariz. and do a lot of walking and glassing. 

 

I'm not sure I follow the one inch tube issue, would the drop of the bullet be more than the field of view in a one inch tube at full power?  I plan to zero crosshair at 200 yds and then figure out what the dots or circles below represent.  Wouldn't moving to a 30mm scope, jump me up in price significantly?

 

And I can definately tell I have moved away from the FFII for better glass.Smile

 

All are AO and none are side focus.

 

Leaning towards Sig. Select, what Koshkin pointed out about the circles being big, kinda worries me now. But first to go see what there is in 30mm, I would have to go get new rings too.

 

Thanks

Kent

 

I stand corrected, I thought you said .223.

 

Yes, a 30mm tube would be more expensive and may be a moot point if your looking to shoot a hold over....

 

Thought you said you also wanted to "dial in your shots", but I misread that as well.



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 21:03
ksbarter View Drop Down
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  Good because I went and looked at the 30mm and they scared the crap out of me.  And I think I will join ya.Wink

 

Thanks

Kent

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 21:11
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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My choice would be the varmit reticle in a Leupold VXIII but I have money down on a Nikon Omega with BDC that I will try on a 50 cal musket so I should know in a couple of weeks. I dont think the 2moa circles are going to be that huge of a problem because they touch the duplex verticle line top and bottom---- the intersection gives as fine of a aiming point as any other reticle plus you have two intersections of the circle one at the top one at the bottom so if  the circle represented 300 yds at 2moa or 6 inches the top of the circle might be say 275 yds and the bottom might be 325 yds. A little range time will tell.  I think as long as you have a point of refrence and work with the scope you will be OK. If you want really precise accuracy the way to do it is  a tactical scope - dial in the clicks to adjust for both elevation and windage. Once you get out over a couple of hundred yards wind can be a huge factor. How would you feel about about working with a Super Sniper scope in say a fixed 10x or 16x  and using the mil dots for hold over points then you would be able to dial in your elevation and windage with much greater accuracy when you wanted to. And when you didnt want to dial it in just use the mil dots for hold over.

This should help explain http://www.leupold.com/products/reticles_TMR.htm



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 21:59
ksbarter View Drop Down
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Would be interested in the the viability of using mil-dot for hold over.  It would broaden the brand of scopes I could consider. ie Sightron  The Leupold is another $150, though the Varmint reticle looks awesome, but no

 

As for a fixed power, I try to carry with the scope on as low as possible in case I jump something. Finding a moving target in at 9x much less a 10x or 16x can be difficult. 

 

I realize that dialing it in is more accurate, but for this rifle I want to stay with holdover.

 

Would you lean more towards the Nikon than the Burris then as far as image quality? Since you are ordering a Nikon.

 

Thanks for the input

Kent

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2006 at 22:25
koshkin View Drop Down
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Mil-dots can be used for holdover with reasonable comfort.  However, you have to be able to figure out the trajectory of your cartridge pretty accurately and then match the Mil-Dot spacing to different ranges.  I do that with a couple of scopes I have: a Sightron S2 3-9x42MD and a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x40MD.  However, you want to keep in mind that the lines in various reticles are different thickness.  Most Mil-Dot reticles have lines that are a bit thicker than those in typical varmint reticles.  A notable exception is Elite 4200.

In some ways using a holdover reticle with crosshairs instead of dots (or circles) is a little easier.  For muzzleloader ranges circles should work great, but for a long range varminter... well that circle is 10" at 500 yards.

I would suspect that Ballistic Plex or Leupold Varmint reticle would be better.  I also prefer holdover to dialing in in most cases, but I am not a long-range competitor.  Both approaches can work well.  Cheaptrick is a clicker, I tend use holdover. I am not sure about Urimaginaryfrnd.

One thing to keep in mind that we all have our own biases and you should take some opinions with a grain of salt. 

I like Burris and SIghtron scopes.  I have a lot of mileage wiht different ones and they always served me well.  As far as Leupold goes, they make fine but heavily overpriced scopes in my opinion.  VX-III is similar to Burris SIgnature Select in quality, but cost more since you are paying for Leupold brand name as well.

Cheaptrick is a Nikon fan.

Urimaginaryfrnd is a Leuoldophile.  Not a whole lot of these in this forum due to Leupold pricing, but there are a few.  I am sure some other ones will chime in once I say something bad about Leupolds.

In reality, all of these are good scopes.  Figure out how much you can spend, and try to look through a few scopes side by side before you make the purchase.  If you are trying to get the most for your dollar, Leupold is seldom the way to go.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2006 at 06:02
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Seems like you just need to choose your reticle and your good to go.

 

The scopes mentioned, Sightron SII, Monarch, Sig. Select, VXIII, will all be about the same with optical performance.

 

Something with target knobs as an option would be nice.....

I can't stop clicking!!!!  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2006 at 08:03
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I'd go with the Burris being it has a wider power range "4-16" I wish all the scope makers would get on board with at least a four fold power range change.

And it may not matter to you, but I still haven't got over the fact that Nikon don't make their scopes in Japan anymore. But that's just me with this problem....it's all in my head......

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2006 at 17:47
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I have had Nikon pro camera equipment for many years along with Hasselblad and Mamiya pro stuff so I am pretty comfortable with Nikon as far as quality and good customer service. As for Burris I have mixed feelings because I have had two negative occurances with their Customer Service regarding problems with a 3-12 pistol scope and a short mag 3-9. I do think that there are several good innovative products made by Burris and I have one burris 1x scope on a 45-70  Encore pistol that is great. So If I were to buy another Burris it would most likely be:

200916 Burris 3-12x50 Euro Diamond 30mm Rifle Scope Burris 3-12x50 Euro Diamond 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Ballistic Plex
  • 30mm
  • Hunter/Comp. Knobs
SWFA: $484.95

And if it was a Leupold:

LEU57170 Leupold 4.5-14x50 VX-III 30mm Riflescope Leupold 4.5-14x50 VX-III 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Varmint Hunters
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • Index Matched Lens System
SWFA: $769.95

And there is a lot of difference in price but I have a 4.5-14x50 VXIII with the wide duplex range estimating reticle and I love it and the varmit reticle is better because it not only has hold over but wind drift marks.  As for hold over or dial it in it depends on what I am shooting at and how much time I have to set up on it. If you are spending that much money here is another burris to think about:

200110 New Burris 4-12x42 Laser Rifle Scope New Burris 4-12x42 Laser Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Ballistic Plex
SWFA: $767.95

All of this sure makes that $429 for the Nikon 5.5-16.5 with bdc look like a bargain to me.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2006 at 21:51
catusbill View Drop Down
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Amen my brother from another mother....Nikon over Burst (Burris) anyday.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2006 at 23:18
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Not sure how the Euro-Diamond got in to the pictureConfused.  But it looks like a nice scopeBig smile  We were lookin at this

 

Burris 4-16x44 Signature Select Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Ballistic Plex
  • 1"
  • Adjustable Objective

In going through all of your thoughts and opinions, it seems that not even I can screw this up. Except perhaps by trying the BDC and not liking it.  So that leaves the Sig. Select or the Sightron 4x16x42 with Mil-dot and Target Turrets. Just in case I every get the urge to start clicking.  Gun and rings get here Wednesday, so scope will be ordered tomorrow. 

 

Does Chris deal with Sightron yet?

 

Truly appreciate all of your time and expertiseHail2, it is sites like this that could keep a guy from dropping $400 bones on VariX-II that is not as bright a their buddies Simmons WTE that he paid half that for.  Just my own personal Leupold story, and yes I am still bitter.Big smile

 

Thanks

Kent

SWFA: $438.95



Edited by ksbarter
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