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Buckmaster 4.5-14X40 vs Aetec 4-14X44

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 03:34
Dallas View Drop Down
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I have an older Rememgton 700 BDL in 7 Rem Mag that I've decided to leave behind in our weekend place in the country during the week. It needs a relatively inexpensive scope that will compliment the 7 mag cartridge. Because the potential for theft is relatively high, I won't be spending serious money on the scope. The choices have been narrowed to two models: Buckmaster 4.5-14X40 and the Aetec 4-14X44. Both have side focus. Overall, they appear to be two peas in a pod.  The question is this: Based on first-hand knowledge and experience, how do these two models compare with one another? I'm already familiar with the alternatives and what I can buy for "just a little more money". But, for reasons I won't dwell upon, the choice is between these two scopes.  BTW, I already own a Nikon Monarch and a couple of Buckmasters, though not the 4.5-14X40 Buckmaster. My only Simmons scope is a 22 Mag model sitting on a Savage 22 WMR. All four scopes have been great to use, and completetely trouble-free.

Can anyone weigh-in on this and help with some solid information and advice?

Thanks!

PS - In this comparison, I don't regard location of manufacture as an advantage for one model over another. The Philippines vs. China isn't a contest between heavyweights!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 06:30
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My only experience is with the 4.5-14x BM.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 07:04
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I can tell you from first hand experience that the Simmons is a piece of Chicom crap.  I ordered one and mounted it and the side focus would not work.  Used Warne bases and QD rings tightened with a torque screw driver to specifications, 25 ft. lbs. of torque.  Sure, I got a defective scope, but that is too many features for so little money that I will bet you there will be a high rate of failure for that scope.  Plus, I will also bet the side focus went out because of very little tolerance within the tube when tightening the rings.  Stick with the Buckmasters.  By the way, the side focus worked fine before mounting.

Edited by Dolphin - May/26/2008 at 07:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 10:45
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Dallas one of the problems with the mid to low end scopes is there is a higher percentage of problems. You will find a number of supporters for either one of your choices. I have owned a Aetec for over ten years and it has been on a 22, muzzel loader,270 and 444. It has always held zero and I beleive it is equal to my Grand Slam for clearity and brightness and comes in a fair second to my Leupold. Some may say I'm crazy, but I call it like I see it. When I bought the Aetec and later the Grand Slam I compared them to the Nikons and I liked the sharpness and the look of the Nikon, but the others seemed to have the edge and I have been very satisfied with them. Honestly I believe you will be pleased with either but you may need to look at other things like customer service and astetics to make your choice. Ofcourse my experience may be misleading because I am dealing with older scopes and what is available today may be something else. Good luck! Let us know what you decide.
Aetec 3x9x50   Grand Slam 3x10x50   Leupold 4x14x50   Next will be?
 
IOR or Kahles or maybe US Optics (CHA-CHING)     me Whackermy wife!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 11:11
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My BM was mounted with Leupold mounts on a .300 RUM Sendero with and without a muzzle brake installed. Mine also had a AO, not a side focus.

POI never moved once and eye relief was forgiving at all magnifications. I beat that scope like a rented mule too!!
 
Back then I didn't have the love for Jap scopes that I have today.  Love
 
I was sure between me and the rifle that we would reduce that "Jap Crap" to scrap metal in short order! Never happened.
I sold the BM to a "meat hunter" to mount on his .270 and as far as I know, it's still going today.
 
Get the Buckmaster and live the dream!! Head%20Bang  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 11:17
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I also had an older Aetec . It sat on a 300 WBY Vanguard for years with no worries. However, I understand the latest model does not fair so well in the durability category.
 
Do you need 14x on the top end ??? Why not save some bucks ( no pun intended) and grab a 4200 Elite or Primos 3x9 . Both  are virtually fool proof, cost less, better optics than the BM or Aetec, and cost alot less. Win- Win .......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 12:01
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Originally posted by martin3175 martin3175 wrote:

I also had an older Aetec . It sat on a 300 WBY Vanguard for years with no worries. However, I understand the latest model does not fair so well in the durability category.
 
Do you need 14x on the top end ??? Why not save some bucks ( no pun intended) and grab a 4200 Elite or Primos 3x9 . Both  are virtually fool proof, cost less, better optics than the BM or Aetec, and cost alot less. Win- Win .......
..............................I agree with Martin here. 14x on the high end? The 7mm mag. is a fine long range shooter, but you should never have to use over 9x on any hunt (maybe for varmits), let alone up to 14x.................I`d go with a better quality scope in a 3x9; the Primos or even better the 4200 w/Rainguard for the same or less money! If you`re not hunting varmits at longer ranges, the 3x9 is more than enough!................I just happen to know where you can get a great deal on a 3x9 4200 for $199!! On the sample list! My former scope. Only 14 months old and like new!!!.................I wonder who will wind up with that!  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 12:45
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Dallas I went back and read your post again and seeing that you already have experience with the buckmaster. You might try to locate an Aetec that you can give a good once over before buying one. I think they are great but I don't think you would see enough difference to spend any extra money to have the Aetec. I checked the Sample list and there are a few buckmasters like you are considering for a great price. There weren't any Aetecs on the list so it isn't likely you wll find one in the same price range. The 4200 on the Sample list has been suggested and is within a few dollars of the buckmaster so it is worth looking at.
Unless you are just in the market to try something new I really don't see reason to change.
 
As far as over scoping you rifle, That may be true but it certainly won't hurt anything. As long as you have a 3x or 4x low end for close shots your good to go. Your not the only one out here who does!
 
Again Good Luck!  Thunbs%20Up  
 
 


Edited by Sgt. D - May/26/2008 at 12:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 12:48
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

I can tell you from first hand experience that the Simmons is a piece of Chicom crap.  I ordered one and mounted it and the side focus would not work.  Used Warne bases and QD rings tightened with a torque screw driver to specifications, 25 ft. lbs. of torque.  Sure, I got a defective scope, but that is too many features for so little money that I will bet you there will be a high rate of failure for that scope.  Plus, I will also bet the side focus went out because of very little tolerance within the tube when tightening the rings.  Stick with the Buckmasters.  By the way, the side focus worked fine before mounting.

ft lbs?? Must be a tank...(I know you meant in lbs... just twisting the rubber band) :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 13:50
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Hey Dallas just found this Aetec that SWFA is selling on E-bay that may be the best bang for the buck if you want to try a Simmons.
If you weren't looking I'd be tempted just because it may be a real deal.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 14:08
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Wow! Plenty of good advice! In fact, each of the posts is helpful. I'm glad that I posted my question on Memorial Day.

I really appreciate all the input. Logic tells me to buy a Buckmaster. They're good scopes, and we all know it. I was thinking about trying the Aetec because I've never tried a Simmons on a CF rifle, and I know someone who will part with his NIB Aetec for $160 (he received it as an award). Up to this point in time, 3 scopes have dominated my collection: Leupold, Nikon, and Bushnell. I decided on the 4-14X power range because of choice of gun/cartridge and location  -  Texas  prairie. In my view, the 7mag is probably the most versatile cartridge on the planet -  great for prairie dogs to mule deer. This is why I chose it as the one gun to permanently stay in the country place. It will be used for anything/everything, and long shots are the norm. I've never wished for a gun with less range or a scope with less magnification, but I've dealt with the flip side of these scenarios and didn't like it.

I'm going to do a side by side comparison of the two scopes. Unfortunately, it won't take place at the rifle range. I'll report what I see. If I should buy the Aetec, I'll heed Dolphin's warning about mounting it. I'll use Talley lightweight (aircraft aluminum alloy) ring/base combo mounts and lap them prior to mounting the scope. If the scope still fails, we can chisel POS on the Aetec's tombstone and spare all other bloggers the experience of owning one. If 7 mag recoil kills it, I'll place the replaced or repaired unit on a 22 WMR. However, it still will be declared POS.

I'll let you know if I buy the Aetec.

Thanks to everyone who has responded and who will respond a little later. Each of you has  been helpful.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 14:16
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P.S.

Once again, Cheaptrick's choice of photos is outstanding. Did everyone notice the combination of his photo and what he wrote?

BTW, Cheaptrick, is/was your Buckmaster the 4.5-14X40? If so, is there anything you'd care to share?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 15:13
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dallas Dallas wrote:


BTW, Cheaptrick, is/was your Buckmaster the 4.5-14X40? If so, is there anything you'd care to share?
 
Yes Sir, only my BM was a older model with a AO, not a SF like the one your considering.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 15:39
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Just another perspective... I had a Simmons on my 7mmMag for 9 years, shot a number of deer at various ranges with it (mostly under 100yds, though). Put it on a 7mm/08 for my daughter last year, but she decided she did not want to kill deer (now "too cool" to hunt), so I sold the rifle/scope. It was still providing good service. 8 days after I sold it, the friend who bought it called and told me he killed an 8 pointer at just under 200yds with it. He never even fired it before he took it hunting... just trusted my zero. As with all optics, there are good stories and bad stories. I know a person who spits every time the name Swarovski is mentioned... hates them, won't talk about it, just hates them. Just sneers and sighs if one says they are thinking of getting a Swarovski scope. Go figure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 16:58
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Yes, I think most of us have had a bad experience that has soured us on a brand of scope, gun, fishing reel, or other item. Also, there are pleasant surprises. Sometimes, products are "sleepers" made by a company not known for great products. For example, not everyone jumped on the Bushnell Elite bandwagon at the same time. A few shooters had to first overlook Bushnell's reputation and try out their new scopes. I might buy the Simmons (Meade - yes, we all feel the same way about them) just to see if it's OK. If not, I suppose I could always limit my losses by selling it on eBay. Now that I have the advantage of knowing beforehand about the mounting problem, I can be sure to avoid it. Bedding and lapping a high quality and beefy alloy ring/base/mount, like the Talley, should do the trick. Or, I could use Burris Signature rings w/inserts and Warne solid steel bases, but that setup could cost half the price of the scope! I think I'll use the Talleys with either scope.

Thanks for the perspective, Kickboxer. Also, thanks to Dolphin for the heads up regarding the mounting incident. Forewarned is forearmed.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 20:08
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if you didnt need side focus i would recommend the nikon primos or bushnell elite 4200, the bushnell elite 3200 is another good one for not much money also, i have had several buckmasters, all were 3x9's and i never had any trouble with any of them, so i think nikon is an ok choice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 21:10
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Thanks, Pyro.

I agree with you about both the Nikons and the Bushnell Elites. I own both a Primos and a 3-9X40 Buckmaster, but neither of the Bushnells. I know that I don't really need AO, much less SF. When I shoot, the CP of the objective lens, the CP of the occular lens, and the pupil of my eye form three points of a straight line. Therefore, parallex isn't really an issue. Also, when I hunt on family property in Arkansas, a 40 yard shot on a deer is viewed as a long shot do to the thick woods and dense cover. I therefore understand that what  throws off some shooters is the circumstances in which some of us hunt out here on the Texas prairie, where things couldn't be more different. Sure, I can knock down a deer at approx. 400 yards with a 9 power. Been there and done that - several times. But, the smaller targets require more magnification. BTW, I also use a heavy barreled and highly customized Ruger 1-V 7mm Rem Mag for long shots, but don't wish to carry it all day or leave it in my home away from home during the week. (I won't name the scope I use on the gun. It's name is a dirty word on this forum, and starts with  "L".) In many parts of the country, lots of hunters aren't aware that anyone actually hunts with such guns. In sum, I hunt in an area where high magnification and a flat shooting cartridge are more of a necessity than a luxury. Mid-range magnification would result in lost opportunities, as has happened so many times to so many of us who hunt in these areas. But, again, I agree with you about the scopes you mention. Each is a winner. In fact, one of the best kept secrets in scopes isn't the quality of the Primos or 4200 for the money (they're both good scopes even when compared to ANY scope at ANY price, including Swaro and Zeiss). I believe that the 3-9X40 Buckmaster offers more for the money at its real world/actual price than any other scope in CURRENT production (Primos discontinued and 4200 will soon disappear).

Thanks for the input, Pyro. It's always good to hear from the guys with 5 stars.

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i wont say that leupolds are bad, cause they arent they just seem like they are overpriced for the quality of there glass, the vx7 is a pretty nice scope so i hear, but for its price its not all that, the same holds true with the rest of the leupold line, they make a tough scope and they stand behind them but there price is not a good indication of the optical quality. i have been playing with the zeiss conquest and comparing it to my 4200 elite and im telling you that its a dead heat for my eyes, so the rainguard and price difference make me go with the 4200, the monarch ucc i have is a tough call when compared to the 4200 also so either way the 4200 and the primos are excellent choices.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2008 at 06:59
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Originally posted by Dallas Dallas wrote:


Thanks, Pyro.

I agree with you about both the Nikons and the Bushnell Elites. I own both a Primos and a 3-9X40 Buckmaster, but neither of the Bushnells. I know that I don't really need AO, much less SF. When I shoot, the CP of the objective lens, the CP of the occular lens, and the pupil of my eye form three points of a straight line. Therefore, parallex isn't really an issue. Also, when I hunt on family property in Arkansas, a 40 yard shot on a deer is viewed as a long shot do to the thick woods and dense cover. I therefore understand that what  throws off some shooters is the circumstances in which some of us hunt out here on the Texas prairie, where things couldn't be more different. Sure, I can knock down a deer at approx. 400 yards with a 9 power. Been there and done that - several times. But, the smaller targets require more magnification. BTW, I also use a heavy barreled and highly customized Ruger 1-V 7mm Rem Mag for long shots, but don't wish to carry it all day or leave it in my home away from home during the week. (I won't name the scope I use on the gun. It's name is a dirty word on this forum, and starts with  "L".) In many parts of the country, lots of hunters aren't aware that anyone actually hunts with such guns. In sum, I hunt in an area where high magnification and a flat shooting cartridge are more of a necessity than a luxury. Mid-range magnification would result in lost opportunities, as has happened so many times to so many of us who hunt in these areas. But, again, I agree with you about the scopes you mention. Each is a winner. In fact, one of the best kept secrets in scopes isn't the quality of the Primos or 4200 for the money (they're both good scopes even when compared to ANY scope at ANY price, including Swaro and Zeiss). I believe that the 3-9X40 Buckmaster offers more for the money at its real world/actual price than any other scope in CURRENT production (Primos discontinued and 4200 will soon disappear).

Thanks for the input, Pyro. It's always good to hear from the guys with 5 stars.

 
                            
 
                                    Mouth%20Taped%20Shut        Yikes         The "L" word!!!!!!!!!   Yikes    
 
    Just kidding!! Bandito    Leupolds are fine scopes---if you have a 29 inch length of pull!!!---Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing(well, a Ruger No. 1 should have plenty of mounting room!!) 
 
and they look purty!!!! Gal      and they work good....(that's a good thing)....they don't fly apart when the gun goes off....(but if it does, it can get fixed in OREGON which is in America!!!   Salute  )    most banks will give you a low-interest loan to buy one!!  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2008 at 07:11
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I have owned many pre-Meade Simmons Aetec scopes, without side focus and they have all performed wonderfully.  One is on a Howa 1500 300 Win. magnum and has maintained poi for years without ever adjusting it and has taken more deer than any rifle that I own.  But, today's Simmons is a whole different breed of cat.  Stay away from they as far as you can.  Also that spec that I entered for mounting the scope should have been inch pounds, not foot pounds. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2008 at 12:17
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Thanks, Dolphin.

I knew you meant inch pounds, and everyone else did, too. We all make typos.  Besides, 25  foot pounds would have literally ripped the scope from the receiver.

It's interesting that you're shooting a Howa in 300 Win Mag. Like the Buckmaster, the Howa is one of the best kept secrets in shooting. Some shooters sneer at them because of the Japanese name. The same folks probably sneered at Japanese scopes, too. I personally experienced an incident in which a guy behind a gun counter at a well known sporting goods chain store told me that the Howa was second rate. When I asked about the Vanguard in order to see what he would say, he proclaimed it to be a great gun with guaranteed accuracy. Duh. His gun knowledge was a mile wide, but only an inch deep.

I gave a stainless Howa 1500 .270 Win to my son Christmas before last. Our first Howa. I mounted his scope and took it to the range. Cheapo Federal Power Shok 130gr ammo at 100 yards was producing 3 shot groups that I could usually cover with a nickel, and 5 shot groups about the size of a quarter. I went back to competitor that evening and bought another gun like my son's. It even has a consecutive serial number. BTW, one gun has a 3-9X40 Buckmaster and the other carries the 4.5-14X40.

It does appear that you know your guns, as well as scopes.

Yes, the Aetec is yet another scope that has fallen from a loftier position. If I should try one, I'll report on what I experience. I'll also buy it knowing that I might have to sell it on eBay. No big deal. I've done this before with both scopes and guns. It usually leads to failure, but I've had some pleasant surprises, too. After all, NOBODY suggested that I try a Howa. On the other hand, I may simply buy another Buckmaster for my ancient 700, and leave the experimentation to someone else.

Thanks for the update. I haven't seen a thread with so many quality and germane responses in a long time. I got lucky.

PS - My next rifle purchase will be a 300 Win Mag. Top contender: Howa.


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Thanks.  I have several Howas and Vanguards and they all shoot as well if not better than most rifles that I own.  The one that I posted in New Rig has not been shot yet, but the metal to laminate stock finish is impeccable.  I have several custom rifles, some that I did myself and it is a well done as they are, if not better.  As far as I am concerned, lets keep them a secret, so that they have a little cache when out with others who know nothing about them.  Thats funny that the guy did not even know Howa made the Vanguard with minor differences.  You know, the more I go into gun shops the more I find how little they know about the products they sell.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2008 at 03:04
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Yes, the number of different stocks that Legacy has mated to Howa barreled actions exceeds that of any other two gun companies combined.

The store where the "expert" educated me carries the Vanguard w/wood stocks, and the Howa youth model scoped combos. He actually handled both of the guns on a regular basis and hadn't figured it out. Double duh. He placed both guns on the counter for a comparison after I told him who makes Vanguards. He didn't even know that the Vanguard is made in Japan. No one behind the counter knew about the Browning A-Bolt & Miroku, either. They thought all A-Bolt s were still made in Belgium. Go figure.

I've put together quite a few custom rigs, myself. In fact, I have one in the works at this time. Well, I've actually had it in the works off and on for about six months.

BTW - I recently changed my forum picture from a Ruger to a boar. That very boar (approx. 400#) whose head I use for my photo was stalked and shot at approx. 80 yds. by my 19 yr. old son with his .270 Win Howa on March 2nd. He could have used a 7 Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, or 30-06. He used the Howa with its marginal cartridge (for large boar) because it gives him confidence. I truly believe that this confidence helped him put a single round through the boar's heart while it was moving. Someday I'll write about the epic battle between my son and his mother about where the stuffed boar head will reside when returned from the taxidermist.

OK. I won't tell anyone about Howas if you don't. I'm sure my son will keep quiet, too.

Good hunting, good fishing, or whatever makes you happy.


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You to Dallas.  Just one more note.  I was at work and one of the techs saw the picture of your boar and was totally grossed out.  She did not know what it was and I had to explain it to her.  Too much fun.  You and your son, as well as your family take care.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2008 at 08:46
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yes, that boar looks like Big Squeeze...................Stare
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Nikon 4.5-14x40 Buckmaster Riflescope griz Rimfire / Airgun 1 7/24/2006 3:54:14 PM
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