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BroadHead Weight Question

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 13:41
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Chief Sackscratch

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I know you're suppose to tune your bow to your broadheads that you intend to use for hunting.  I have been shooting Muzzy 100gr and just came across several boxes of older Razorback heads.  They weigh a bit more at 143 grs each according to the box.  What kinda performance decrease/decrease, if any, will I see out to 50yds.  I don't know if they would be better for transfering more energy with the increased weight or not.  Right now with the muzzy's i am getting around 270fps if that matters.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 14:12
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 Good chance you'd have to go to a heavier shaft for proper flight as those heavier broadheads will put your FOC (point of balance which should be around 11 to 13% forward of center )way off the mark.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 14:21
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They will fly differently and the distance will be decreased. 43 grs is a lot in archery terms. Yes the spline of the arrow will also be affected more, which can translate into a different poi. Especially if you don't fletch your own shafts, and apply the spline identically on each one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 14:39
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Think it would hurt to take them and test them on my existing arrows to see how they fly?  I dont' want to do any damage to my bow.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 15:00
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Think it would hurt to take them and test them on my existing arrows to see how they fly?  I dont' want to do any damage to my bow.
 
yes, if the arrow is not spined right it can shatter. then you will need to go and have the ER dig it out of your arm and face. I would make sure you have the right aroows first.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 15:06
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10-4 I will look at them when i get home and let you know what I have.  Expect a call later.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 15:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2010 at 22:29
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I have been really happy with the 125 gr Thunderheads. One nice thing is you can get replacement blades which maked a big difference to me with the boys shooting them.  I dont think I would go heavier than a 125 gr.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2010 at 08:19
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Depends. What kind of bow do you shoot ? Draw length? poundage? What arrows, spine, and overall length are they ?

I would say if you have an average set up your probably under spined for those broadheads. You can : drop your poundage, possibly cut your arrows down, or change arrows. If you happened to be on the stiffer side of your spine range then they make work fine.
 
I seriously doubt your spine is so low that it would be dangerous to try the Razorbacks , but it certainly would not hurt to research it a little before screwing one on ! I personally like a heavy arrow for penetration and a quiet shot !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2010 at 11:21
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Some of this can be negated by use of an overdraw. This allows for a shorter arrow, and hence less spine flex, and faster arrow speed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2010 at 15:51
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I will know more about the draw weight tonight I am carrying it to a store to measure it.  Then i can figure out what arrows i truely need.  I am guessing its gonna be right at 58-60#s
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2010 at 16:36
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The 100gr broad head is pretty much the standard for white tails today.  Yes there are applications and animals that dictate the use of different weights and stiles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 07:24
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Ok so everything got measured last night.
Draw weight 61#'s
Needed Arrow Length - 28.5"
Current arrows 4570
 
The guy said I could try the 143gr on those arrows with no problems,  I'd rather have a second opinion.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 08:24
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 G,I don't believe you'll have any safety or equipment problems with trying those arrows.  Only thing will happen is if the FOC is too far forward your arrows will nose dive. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 08:34
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FOC?  i'm a dummy when it comes to this. whats that mean.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 09:01
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 FOC Balance Point (FOC or the balance point forward of the center of the arrow)
Arrow balance point presents us with some tradeoffs. If you keep the arrow’s nose light it will remain a little more level in the air and actually plane or sail along a flatter trajectory than it would if the nose were heavier and it flew pointing more nose downward. On the other side of the tradeoff is stability. The closer the center of gravity gets to the physical center of the arrow the more unstable the arrow becomes while in flight. Take it to the extreme. If the center of gravity were behind the physical center of the arrow it would actually flip around as soon as it left the bow and try to fly tail first. The closer you get to a tail heavy arrow the more unstable it becomes.

There’s an archery term that’s used to describe an arrow’s balance point. It’s called Forward of Center, or FOC. You arrive at FOC by making a few measurements and then running the numbers through a simple formula. Here’s the process:

Balance point:

1m.jpg Install the tip you will be shooting. If you are testing stability for 3-D shooting put your field point or nibb into the arrow. Of course, for hunting install your broadhead. Find the arrow’s balance point by sliding it back and forth along a fairly sharp edge. You’ll find the spot where the arrow just balances. Mark it carefully. Now measure from the bottom of the nock groove to the balance point and write this number down for later.

Overall length:

There are different conventions for measuring overall arrow length depending upon the type of point you are using.

Arrows that include inserts: Measure from the bottom of the nock groove to the end of the arrow not including the insert. This is often referred to as the arrow’s cut length.

Shafts with swaged tips: The overall length is measured from the bottom of the nock groove to the most forward extension of the full diameter of the shaft, just behind the swage.

Shafts that include outserts: Measure from the nock groove to a point ¾ inch forward of the rearward end of the outsert.

Shafts with glue-on heads: Measure from the nock groove to the most rearward portion of the glue-on point.

Determine FOC:

To find the FOC (which is always expressed as a percentage) divide the overall length by two. This should produce the physical center of the shaft. Now subtract this number from the balance point and divide by the overall length. Multiply by 100 to express the fractional value as a percentage.

Most expert archers agree that an FOC value that is between 7 and 10 percent will produce the best compromise between stability and a flat trajectory. The American Society for Testing and Materials, in their specification for measuring balance point, state that a value of 9% is typical. But, they also state that the range can be as wide as 7% to 18% while still producing good arrow flight characteristics.

The best way to achieve your desired FOC is to try several different weight field points until you hit the right balance. However, if you are sold on a particular broadhead that’s too heavy to permit the arrow to fall into the desired FOC range, you can change from feathers to vanes. You can change from aluminum inserts to lighter composite inserts or you can even play some games with the weight of the nock end. For example, you can experiment with adding weight by placing a narrow strip of lead tape around the shaft just behind the fletching. Make sure it fully circles the shaft so you don’t introduce a wobble. You can get lead tape from any full-service golf supply shop.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2010 at 09:09
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Thanks E. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2010 at 14:18
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Nice info on balance points. Fletching size can also come into play. I tend to like heavier set ups as they penetrate better and in bow hunting (and other things) its ALL about the penetration!. I shoot a 70# now with 125 gn heads and they weight in at like 525 gns total per arrow. I get about 260FPS out of this and have shot through animals as large as Kudo with no problem. Loose Rule of thumb is you'll lose about 1 fps per every 5 grains of weight so you will see a slow down in speed and trajectory especially out near the 50 yards you mention.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2010 at 18:40
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I've been using 100 gr broadheads (Muzzys, Thunderheads, and now G5 Montecs) for 25 years, have killed many animals with them out of 70 lb draw bows, have never had the first problem, and with few exceptions, all have been complete pass-throughs.  I've found that 100 gr broadheads have been easiest for me to tune with my draw length (29") and arrow weight (about 450 gr. total).  If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I say.
 
Overdraws are basically a thing of the past these days, as they make your setup less forgiving and noisier.  At one time, they were very popular because of the speed increase you got from using the shorter arrows.  Modern bows have now become so efficient that you can get the kind of speeds without them that you used to get with them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2010 at 20:39
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Originally posted by Bigdaddy0381 Bigdaddy0381 wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Think it would hurt to take them and test them on my existing arrows to see how they fly?  I dont' want to do any damage to my bow.
 
yes, if the arrow is not spined right it can shatter. then you will need to go and have the ER dig it out of your arm and face. I would make sure you have the right aroows first.
 


+1

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2010 at 01:53
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I don't suspect that changing from your 100 gr muzzy heads to the 143's is worth all of the trouble if your bow is set up for and shoots the 100's well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2010 at 18:03
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tell ya little story here about 5/6 years ago. I went elk hunting. after using 100grs broad heads to practice with left them @ home than turn around & drive 4hrs back home stop @ a wally word to pick some but they didn't have any 100 grs, so I took 125grs and thought it wouldn't matter much. Well was ever wrong on the 4 four day of the hunt I had a 800lbs spike walk out @ 50yrds distances I had practice @ all summer long. I was like Yes!!!! Pay dirt drew back let the arrow rip watched the the arrow just fall short! Stood there like duhhh what happen then I remember the broad head. I even held high. So practice all the time what ever gain broad head u hunt with & never switch them out. lol
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