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Voodoo6 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voodoo6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 13:25
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

why would you want to???


I'd like to eek out a little more accuracy out of my AR barrel, is all.
Probably not worth it, huh?
"A prisoner of the white lines on the freeway"
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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 13:29
 I noticed that velocity DROPPED considerably after doing it.
That tells me that friction has been reduced and pressure doesn't build as easily before the bullet's gone. I increased the charge slightly, and I think in one case I may have even switched to a faster propellent to get velocity back to where it had been. Accuracy had improved, and cleaning was much easier. Some had been unusually rough bores beforehand, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 13:40
Originally posted by Voodoo6 Voodoo6 wrote:

Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

why would you want to???


I'd like to eek out a little more accuracy out of my AR barrel, is all.
Probably not worth it, huh?
 
You might give Dave Tubb a call to see what he thinks about the chrome thing. I'm sure it's been done by somebody.
 
 If your chrome is really thin, I suppose it's possible to cut completly through it and get down to steel, don't know if that would be any worse than a barrel that had the chrome shot out of it after ten-thousand rounds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 14:23
If they ...break in... give them the tip of your barrel?   Wink
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SamC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SamC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 14:23
Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Another tried and true method................

Break-in 101
 
Isn't he that Alaskan guy who got banned from OT?
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 14:26
YEP!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 15:02
The possibility of chrome lined barrels not having the chrome with an even thickness all the way through the barrel is the reason National Match M14s did not have chrome lined barrels. While I don't know how much of a difference it makes now, I think if I had a chrome lined barrel that wasn't performing, I would replace it with a non chrome lined barrel.
As for barrel breakin, I go to the range, shoot, go home and clean the the copper out of the barrel. They seem to get better.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Voodoo6 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voodoo6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 15:14
Yep, my chrome runs long and deep.
The AR shoots MOA now, so that's certainly acceptable by my standards.

Sorry for the high jack.
"A prisoner of the white lines on the freeway"
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John Barsness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 18:03
Another alternative when you end up with a factory barrel that fouls pretty badly is Ultra Bore Coat. It's a fien ceramic in a fairly quick-setting liquid glue, and you wipe it into a clean bore then let it set overnight. Finally you fire maybe 10 rounds through the bore and the ceramic fills all the rough spots that cause the fouling.
 
I've used it on several barrels now and it really works. One of the barrels I tested it on was a brand-new .223 barrel. First I fired 50 rounds of factory ammo just to see how much fouling built up (quite a bit) then cleaned it down to bare metal and installed the UBC, then the next day shot 10 rounds down the bore to cure it. Finally I cleaned it again (the curing rounds will normally foul the bore somewhat) and shot another 50 rounds. This time there was zero copper fouling.
 
I've got it in several of my prairie dog rifles, and a couple of big game rifles that were always foulers, no matter how much I cleaned them with JB Compound. It works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 18:38
Originally posted by Voodoo6 Voodoo6 wrote:

Yep, my chrome runs long and deep.
The AR shoots MOA now, so that's certainly acceptable by my standards.

Sorry for the high jack.

Would that be in lieu of a low jack
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 19:47
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

Another alternative when you end up with a factory barrel that fouls pretty badly is Ultra Bore Coat. It's a fien ceramic in a fairly quick-setting liquid glue, and you wipe it into a clean bore then let it set overnight. Finally you fire maybe 10 rounds through the bore and the ceramic fills all the rough spots that cause the fouling.
 
I've used it on several barrels now and it really works. One of the barrels I tested it on was a brand-new .223 barrel. First I fired 50 rounds of factory ammo just to see how much fouling built up (quite a bit) then cleaned it down to bare metal and installed the UBC, then the next day shot 10 rounds down the bore to cure it. Finally I cleaned it again (the curing rounds will normally foul the bore somewhat) and shot another 50 rounds. This time there was zero copper fouling.
 
I've got it in several of my prairie dog rifles, and a couple of big game rifles that were always foulers, no matter how much I cleaned them with JB Compound. It works.
 
That's interesting.
 For years I've wondered why no one has come up with ceramic-lined barrels, for its ability to shrug off high temperatures as well as it's incredible wear properties. Sounds like somebody is finally taking a step or two in that direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 21:17
Get Your Popcorn Ready
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SamC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SamC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 21:22
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

Another alternative when you end up with a factory barrel that fouls pretty badly is Ultra Bore Coat. It's a fien ceramic in a fairly quick-setting liquid glue, and you wipe it into a clean bore then let it set overnight. Finally you fire maybe 10 rounds through the bore and the ceramic fills all the rough spots that cause the fouling.
 
I've used it on several barrels now and it really works. One of the barrels I tested it on was a brand-new .223 barrel. First I fired 50 rounds of factory ammo just to see how much fouling built up (quite a bit) then cleaned it down to bare metal and installed the UBC, then the next day shot 10 rounds down the bore to cure it. Finally I cleaned it again (the curing rounds will normally foul the bore somewhat) and shot another 50 rounds. This time there was zero copper fouling.
 
I've got it in several of my prairie dog rifles, and a couple of big game rifles that were always foulers, no matter how much I cleaned them with JB Compound. It works.
 
JB,
Looks like good stuff, Is there any potential problems to keep an eye out for when using this product?
Sam

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John Barsness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 21:33

Yeah, there are some minor problems. First, the bore has to be completely clean, and I mean no copper fouling at all, and then thoroughly degreased. Otherwise the glue won't stick and the ceramic can't embed in the steel.

Then it has to be put in with a slightly loose-fitting cotton patch or, preferably, a bore mop. The people at UBC (www.ultracoatingsinc.com) recommend a mop. Otherwise the stuff gets pushed out of the barrell instead of thoroughly coating the bore. I had this problem when trying to install it in a .204, and it didn't cover the entire bore. But it is also easy to do again, and in larger bores sometimes it takes more than on application. It did in a .338 of mine.
 
Once it's in there correctly, though, it really lasts--but you can't use a metal bore-brush when cleaning, or you will "uninstall" it, to use computer jargon. But you won't need to, since any basic bore cleaner (even Hoppe's #9) will take out the powder fouling and what copper fouling exists--which is usually none or next to none.
 
If installed correctly it will last the life of the barrel.


Edited by John Barsness - April/23/2009 at 09:23
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SamC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SamC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2009 at 21:56

Thanks JB!

Sam

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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2009 at 08:02
have 1400 rds to date of moly coated 190 gr smk thru 300 wsm chromed line spr, no break in no cleaning except wiping bolt off, copper fouling is over-rated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2009 at 08:43

I would agree that copper fouling is overrated, but in recent years (since starting to fool with both UBC and certain powders that reduce copper fouling) I have come to conclusion that it makes more sense to coat the bore once that to coat hundreds or thousands of bullets. And UBC does work in chromed bores as well; one of the rifles I've treated is my Bushmaster .223 with simply doesn't copper-foul at all, and hardly powder-fouls especially when used with Ramshot powder. It can be fired pretty much indefinitely without bore cleaning--using conventional bullets.

I just talked to one of the representatives of a major rifle firm the other day and they are working with another bore coating that is supposedly even better. Much of this stuff is being developed by the military.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magshooter1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2009 at 08:58
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

Yeah, there are some minor problems. First, the bore has to be completely clean, and I mean no copper fouling at all, and then thoroughly degreased. Otherwise the glue won't stick and the ceramic can't embed in the steel.

Then it has to be put in with a slightly loose-fitting cotton patch or, preferably, a bore mop. The people at UBC (www.ultracoatings.com) recommend a mop. Otherwise the stuff gets pushed out of the barrell instead of thoroughly coating the bore. I had this problem when trying to install it in a .204, and it didn't cover the entire bore. But it is also easy to do again, and in larger bores sometimes it takes more than on application. It did in a .338 of mine.
 
Once it's in there correctly, though, it really lasts--but you can't use a metal bore-brush when cleaning, or you will "uninstall" it, to use computer jargon. But you won't need to, since any basic bore cleaner (even Hoppe's #9) will take out the powder fouling and what copper fouling exists--which is usually none or next to none.
 
If installed correctly it will last the life of the barrel.
 
Now that's good info right there! Excellent
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John Barsness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2009 at 09:24
Sorry, I made a mistake in the website name, which I corrected in my post. It's www.ultracoatingsinc.com.
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2009 at 17:35
a lot of attention got payed to copper fouling during the 80's when mil surplus 308 became available at really good prices, 4-5 cents, , the bullets used had really high copper contend and would leave a good build up in some guns. so products were developed. among current high count guns, a 6.5x284 with 1200 rds with the only cleaning of the dreaded carbon cone build up around 600 rds, a .223 at 3500 rds, (using TAC) no cleaning except bolt carrier and chamber. I think I'll wait a bit on the bore coatings, and let a couple of you guys get it down.
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