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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2009 at 21:23
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Optics GrassHopper
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Hey everyone!  I have been reading threads on here for quite some time and have recently posted I just purchased a new KonusPro M30 8.5-32X52.  I wanted to post pics but it said I had to jump through some hoops or email them to someone, anywho, I understand that is probably so no one posts a bunch of crap on here, so cool with me.  I am as happy as I can be at this point with my new scope, but I have yet to have a chance to put any range time in with it.  This is where you guys, aka experts, come in!  I keep reading bits and pieces about box testing.  Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a box test and what is the purpose?  Should I perform one at the range?  How do I go about it?  Please, I appreciate any info on this!!

BTW, this is an awesome forum!

Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2009 at 23:45
RONK View Drop Down
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 A "Box Test" is nothing more than a shooting exercise performed to determine how well your scope moves the point of impact when designated corrections are dialed in by the turret adjustments. In other words, does the scope adjust the correct amount as indicated by the graduations on the dials, (and owner's manual), and does it move repeatedly from one setting to another?

 To be performed correctly, certain conditions should be met.
 First, the shooter must be capable of accurate work, preferably with a sound benchrest- shooting technique.  Past performance is a good start in determining this.
 Second, the rifle used must also be capable of very good and proven accuracy.
 Same with the ammo used, which should be of the same lot, and of previously proven consistency.
 Also, the exact distance from bolt face to target should be verified, within a yard or two if possible, and 100 yards is the usual standard. Depending upon conditions, longer or shorter distances can be used, but the proper math must then be applied to the results to validate them.
 Test should be performed under calm and otherwise favorable shooting conditions, with few distractions. It is nice to have a helper to keep notes, help count clicks, post targets, etc. The rifle should zeroed in for the distance used,and then be cleaned thoroughly before the test, and a fouling shot or two taken after said cleaning.
  Okay, now to begin:
 Set up a large, clean target with a single small aiming point marked in the center. Don't use commercial targets, animal or human sillouettes, etc. (Too distracting.) Plain white or light gray poster paper or cardboard is best. Mark which end is "top" (for later comparison.)
  Carefully fire one shot. It should be right on to the point of aim if you zeroed it properly earlier.
 Now dial "UP"  ten Minutes of Angle, or whatever you want to move it. It doesn't really matter as long as you don't move it completely off the paper, and as long as you keep accurate notes of exactly how many clicks you dialed. The closer you can get to the edges, the more valid your test will be. In other words, a 20" x20" finished box test is far more trustworthy than a 6"x6" box test. You see, the more correction you dial, the more will very slight errors between clicks build upon one another to give really truthful, (and possibly disappointing) results.
  Fire another round. (Use the original aiming point throughout the entire test without the slightest deviation.)
Note the result.
Dial the windage turret "RIGHT" ten minutes.
 Fire another round. Note the result.
 Dial "DOWN" twenty minutes and fire another round. Note the result.
 Dial "LEFT" Twenty minutes and fire another round. Note the result.
 Dial "Up" Twenty minutes and fire another round. Note the result.
 In a perfect world, you now have a target with one hole on the center, at the point of aim, another hole ten inches above it and four more making a perfect 20-inch by 20-inch square with the aiming point exactly centered. Measure it carefully and go home happy. 
Or not.
 There are many valid variations of this test, of course, such as firing groups of three or five at each corner before dialing, or continuing around the box, firing one round in each corner, dialing to the next one, etc., several times around, and then back to center or whatever.
And so forth.
 The most important things, though, I have outlined above, and should give reliable results if no steps are omitted...  
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 05:50
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Optics GrassHopper
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Just so I'm sure I follow:
-  I use a Lead Sled for sighting in before each season.  What is a "sound" bench rest for me may be a joke to you guys, so I just wanna make sure we are on the same page. 
-  I've never had any issues with the rounds I shoot (Win. 7mm Mag Silver Tip Ballistic), but I have never tried to perform an accuracy test as intense as this.  They have always seemed to go where I wanted them to go!  I know hand loads are better, but time and lack of equipment limit me.
-  I pick my aiming point, shoot, then use the SAME aiming point and make my MOA adjustments.  Then fire again, then use the original aiming point and adjust again.  Repeat.
Am I understanding?
-  My scope is 1/8 MOA, I know most are 1/4 MOA.  Does this make any difference other that I should have to give each adjustment more clicks?

Thanks for the advice and instructions Ron, from what I've read on here, you know your shizzle!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 09:05
RONK View Drop Down
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 A properly used Lead Sled would work fine. (By a 'sound" technique, I meant one that was technically sound; that is; using a solid, comfortable sitting position at a conventional shooting bench, (not a folding card table, please!), using a padded forend rest or sandbags, (the LeadSled qualifies), being sure not to let the barrel set on the front rest when shooting, maintaining a good cheekweld to the stock for a consistent head position, proper breathing and trigger control, etc.
I've seen plenty of guys equate "benchrest shooting" with using a rolled up jacket over the hood of a pickup. or leaning on a fencepost. ( Sorry. Not good enough!)
  Don't worry about whether handloads may be better if your factory loads shoot well for you. Since you apparently don't yet have an accuracy "baseline" established, you may want to shoot a five-shot group at each point, and determine the approximate center of each group as the datum point from which you would measure to the next group center when evaluating your final results.
By the way, (to seemingly condradict what I had posted earlier), the rifle really doesn't really have to be super accurate to get a pretty good test, as long as it is fairly consistent and as long as you shoot five-round groups and measure from group centers. (Although the smaller those groups are, the better your results will be. If nothing else it just makes things easier all the way around to use the most accurate rifle you have.)
 
Yes- be certain to use the exact same aiming point throughout, and let the scope turrets determine where each group will land in relation to THAT point!
 Whether the scope turrets are graduated in 1/8 minute, 1/4 minute, 1/2 minute or 1/10  MILS is relatively inconsequential as far as the test is concerned, as long as you know what they are supposed to be when you compare it to what the final results tell you they actually ARE!
 1/8 inch clicks are easy to lose track of when counting them, so pay attention to the other turret markings as well. Write everything down as you go, including the zero settings on both turrets before you begin cranking up and around the target.
 Good lick, and let us know how things go!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 09:21
RONK View Drop Down
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 Also- You should be aware that you can also get a pretty good idea of how your scope tracks without even firing a shot. You simply bag the rifle up solidly, remove the bolt for safety's sake, look through the scope and have an assistant downrange marking the intersection of the crosshars on the target per your verbal directions. You must not move the rig at all when dialing turrets, so it helps to have a third assistant dial them while you view results without moving your head off the stock at all.
 The results will appear backwards and upside down compared to a live-fire test. This is because when you dial "UP", the crosshairs will move down on the target. When you dial "RIGHT", the crosshairs will move to the left, etc.
 That's the way it's supposed to work, and the test should be equally valid  (if performed carefully) as a live-fire test. 
 
 
(When I go to the range, I want to SHOOT, so I seldom use the no-shoot method!)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 11:01
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I think I have it now, thanks again Ron!  I am itching to put some rounds through it and see how it handles.  I think, however cheaper it may be, the latter method is not for me.  I'm with you on when at the range, I wanna shoot!  I will definitely post my results and pictures of both gun/scope combo and box test.  Again, thanks for the info.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 11:17
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OK, one last question I just thought of:  How should the magnification be set on the scope?  At 8.5 or at 32 or somewhere in between?  Or will this even make a difference?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 11:31
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From a solid rest, set it at 32X.

Also, I'd fire a 3-shot group prior to starting the box, just to see how well shooter, rifle, rest, and ammo work together.

A 1/8th MOA scope means you will be dialing in MANY CLICKS, I recommend you write down the adjustments you need to make and check them off as you make them.  Getting lost on the dial sucks.

Ron said don't use a commercial target, I prefer commercial targets, especially the ones with 1-inch cubes, so I can see both how the scope adjusts and where the groups are falling compared to where I think they should.  It's preference, just pointing out that some do it slightly differently.

The 7mm's I've shot generated a fair amount of recoil and were hunting rifles.  If yours is the same, let the barrel cool a few minutes between shots, else you'll heat the barrel enough to alter point of impact - and that is bad for a box test.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 13:21
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 Can't argue with any of Rancid's thoughts. A dull-colored grid target should work fine, I just personally don't like the colored Shoot-N-See ones, or any of the ones with a brightly colored center. They flare too much in good light to discern a precise aiming point.
 
Most of them are also too small to do this right, but I'm sure there are some that are big enough.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 17:42
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I thought I remembered reading in one of the threads to go all the way up on the magnification, so I'm glad I thought to ask.  Thanks!  This may be a rather dumb question, but why does it need to be zoomed in all the way?  Just for curiosity.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 18:22
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Precision in sight picture/POA...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 18:58
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Also, if your scope has a parallax adjustment- be sure to get that tuned in perfectly first.

 Shoot the box with the magnification set all the way up, document it all however you desire, and then shoot it again on a fresh target under the same conditions, but with the power turned down. You can then compare both targets to see if the zero or click values change with magnification. 

You'll be getting in plenty of shooting, so pack a lunch if you decide to do that!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 19:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2009 at 21:47
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I need more ammo!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2009 at 12:44
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TAZ approves!
 All is good!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2013 at 10:32
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I created a scope tracking target with instructions. It should help. Not sure how to include PDFs, so email me for the file and I can send it to you via email. garylarson1976@gmail.com
 
-Gary
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2013 at 10:40
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Just an FYI, this thread is 3 years old.  
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