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BORKA TOOLS Multi Torque & Adjustable Drivers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2011 at 15:20
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Just ordered mine! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2012 at 18:34
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What a great tool. I got to use mine today mounting base, rings and scope to rifle.It worked like a charm.... I really like the idea that bits are held in place while using and all parts in the MG5 kit look to be quality stuffThunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 04:44
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Help me out here....Bucky

There's 2 sides to the bar. One side has a torque value of 36 in pound, the opposite "hole" on the other side is 15 in pounds, I think. 
How does the tool "know" which torque value it's using??  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 06:37
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I have a Wheeler and have used it for years quite successfully.  I have checked calibration regularly and it has always been within spec, actually, until recently, better than spec.  It has degraded to +/- 1inlb in the last year.  Still spec... nothing wrong with Wheeler.  I do like the Borka as a "bag unit" better, though.  It is more useful as a field tool.  
 
I know this is an old post, but I have checked my Fatwrench often, and recently, and it is dead nuts on its torque settings.  I know that several Fatwrenches have often gone out of spec because they were stored with a load on the spring.  They need to to be stored without a load.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 20:30
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There are probably tens, if not hundreds of millions of pre-set torque drivers, all of which have spring compressed to a certain value (pre-loaded), and they work just fine for many years. Valve springs in car engines are heavily compressed, stay like this for decades and in addition, work for hundreds of millionds of cycles. What I'm saying is that leaving spring compressed can not do any harm unless spring is compresssed to nearly solid height for several years, in which case, there may be indeed something happening which spring engineers call "spring relaxion" - spring looses some portion of intital spring rate, typpically between 5 to 10% in several years. Of course, FAT wrench, being made in China, probably has an extremely high quality spring inside Eek, which needs to be treated in some special ways to work right. Springs made in some less sophisticated, then China, countries, can be left compressed with no loss of accuracy.  Also, I'm exicted to hear that China FAT wrench is accurate within +/-1 inch-lbs. for all torque settings from 10 to 65 inch-lbs.  I'll gladly pay $5,000 to anybody who can submit at least 2 independent third party reports confirming that, because  I can then sell these reports to Chinese maker of FAT wrench for $50,000. They'll pay any kind of money to hear they make the most accurate torque tool in the world...
  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 21:10
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To the owners of FAT wrench, who claim their wrench to be within +/- 1 inch lbs. for any settings from 10 to 65 inch-lbs. -
 
I was unlucky not to be able to come across anything like that. As an engineer who does torque tools for living, I think it is not feasible. But, I may be wrong, so 
 
here is my bet:
 
Send me your FAT torque wrench, I will then send it to Mountz, Inc in CA, the leader in industrial torque tools, to use their very sophisticated lab, compliant with all world standards, to check for deviation of torque output between 10 and 65 inch-lbs. If you happen to have a FAT torque wrench with just +/- 1 inch-pound deviation for any torque setting from 10 to 65 inch-lbs., I'll buy your torque wrench for $1000. If your torque wrench is not that accurate, and deviation for any setting between 10 and 65 inch-lbs, is more than +/- 1 inch-lbs., you will get your wrench back, but only if you pay $125 cost for the lab check, which would be my cost of doing this procedure at Mountz. 
 
Results of this lab check will be published in public, with reference to the actual owner of the wrench and with full disclosure of all technical details.
 
Anybody wants to take this bet?
 
    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 21:23
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Originally posted by kortik kortik wrote:

There are probably tens, if not hundreds of millions of pre-set torque drivers, all of which have spring compressed to a certain value (pre-loaded), and they work just fine for many years. Valve springs in car engines are heavily compressed, stay like this for decades and in addition, work for hundreds of millionds of cycles. What I'm saying is that leaving spring compressed can not do any harm unless spring is compresssed to nearly solid height for several years, in which case, there may be indeed something happening which spring engineers call "spring relaxion" - spring looses some portion of intital spring rate, typpically between 5 to 10% in several years. Of course, FAT wrench, being made in China, probably has an extremely high quality spring inside Eek, which needs to be treated in some special ways to work right. Springs made in some less sophisticated, then China, countries, can be left compressed with no loss of accuracy.  Also, I'm exicted to hear that China FAT wrench is accurate within +/-1 inch-lbs. for all torque settings from 10 to 65 inch-lbs.  I'll gladly pay $5,000 to anybody who can submit at least 2 independent third party reports confirming that, because  I can then sell these reports to Chinese maker of FAT wrench for $50,000. They'll pay any kind of money to hear they make the most accurate torque tool in the world...
  
 
My post was not meant to put down the Borka tools.  I had, in fact, planned on purchasing some myself.  My post was to confirm, that in my experience, with my fatwrench, I have had very good luck.  My gun-nut buddy has a Snap On QD150, which is supposed to be pretty accurate, and is in line with my fatwrench.  I have had it for four years.  It has been a good product for me, regardless of where it was made.  Is it as good as the Snap On or Borka, probably not.
 
You forgot to mention magazine springs.  They can stay compressed for decades without ill effects.
 
 
EDIT:
 
I had this reply window open while you posted your other "bet" post.  I like that post a lot.  That is putting your money (and products) where your mouth is.  I can't take your bet, as I don't know if mine is that accurate or not (we compare in 5 in. pound increments against the Snap On -  maybe that is too course, but it is good enough to me), but I will send you my fatwrench if you want to have it tested for your own promotional material, at your expense, and you could let everybody know how it turned out.  It seems like mine is a pretty good one.


Edited by Bitterroot Bulls - February/02/2012 at 21:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 22:26
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Matt,
 
I mean no offense, of course.... Just was having a little fun, but on a serious note, and after spending some time researching torqgue tools, some things become pretty evident. You're right of course, about mag. springs.
 
I do not need to take down FAT to promote my tools. It's just this itch of the enginner, you know. We're like pigs, like to roll in a mud sometimes...
 
In my observations, it's practically impossible to have spring based adjustable torque driver with +/1 inch-lbs. or less deviation for the whole range from 10 to 65 inch-lbs., made in China, Germany or anywhere else... The reason that it is imposiible is simple - linearity of the compression spring, which is limited, say, to decent one only between 25% and 75 % of the load. Which is 1:3 ratio for a decent linearity relative to the load. 10 to 65 is 1:6.5 ratio. Not going to be linear, deviation will vary considerably between low, middle and high settings.
 
But if somebody does have one THAT accurate FAT wrench, I would like to have this "abnormality" as a collectors item. But I do not believe my 1000 bucks is in danger...
 
I'll check with Mountz, if they agree to check out your torque wrench for free, I'll take your offer.
 
 
 
 
The reason that it is imposiible is simple - linearity of the spring.  
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 23:09
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Excellent.

PM me if you want to set it up. I would be very curious about the results. Do you have results on the accuracy of the Borka already? If not, a head-to-head comparison would be great, as the FATwrench is a commonly purchased tool.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 01:18
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O.K., sounds like a good idea.
 
Will get back to you thru PM when/if Mountz gives O.K.
 
Boris
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 04:24
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Help me out here....Bucky

There's 2 sides to the bar. One side has a torque value of 36 in pound, the opposite "hole" on the other side is 15 in pounds, I think. 
How does the tool "know" which torque value it's using??  

I don't get this either. Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 11:29
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Originally posted by Voodoo6 Voodoo6 wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Help me out here....Bucky

There's 2 sides to the bar. One side has a torque value of 36 in pound, the opposite "hole" on the other side is 15 in pounds, I think. 
How does the tool "know" which torque value it's using??  

I don't get this either. Big Grin

Whichever number is facing toward whatever it is your tightening is the number that the tool is using. 
It is in the instructions.
ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 11:35
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Right, I get that, but wouldn't it be the same torque value?? (I know it's not.)

It's a great piece of kit! I mounted a scope, and checked the action screws on my Remington.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 11:41
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Right, I get that, but wouldn't it be the same torque value?? (I know it's not.)

It's a great piece of kit! I mounted a scope, and checked the action screws on my Remington.   

Keep in mind that when you are tightening something, you are applying clockwise tangential pressure onto the groove on the torque wrench handle.  If you flip the torque wrench so that the other set of numbers is facing toward the fastener, you the same clockwise pressure is now trying to bend the torque wrench in a different direction (since you just flipped it), right?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 11:47
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Right, I get that, but wouldn't it be the same torque value?? (I know it's not.)

It's a great piece of kit! I mounted a scope, and checked the action screws on my Remington.   

Keep in mind that when you are tightening something, you are applying clockwise tangential pressure onto the groove on the torque wrench handle.  If you flip the torque wrench so that the other set of numbers is facing toward the fastener, you the same clockwise pressure is now trying to bend the torque wrench in a different direction (since you just flipped it), right?

ILya

Ah so.....Bucky
Your so smart. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 12:45
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Just to add a bit to what Ilya said:
 
Hold the torque driver in your hand and so that you see one side of driver arm with 6 torque settings, laser marked on that side. Apply force clockwise to the handle finger groove until handle "breaks over".
Now, do the same, but hold the driver so that you can see the other side of the driver arm with the other 6 torque settings. This time, "break over" force will be different in value. 
 
Two different forces to "break over" handle to the left and to the right of the driver arm are provided by the design of the locking ball detent. When you change the driver arm side, these two forces change places. Because you only use clockwise rotation, only one of two available foces is used for tightening of the fasteners. The other force becomes "active" only when you flip the torque driver over to the other side.      
 
2 pre-set forces x 6 fixed distances = 12 pre-set torque values.   
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 14:24
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I was going to buy one today...But SWFA doesn't have any...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 14:32
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Brady placed an order for kits, will be shipping his order next week.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 17:57
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Originally posted by kortik kortik wrote:

Just to add a bit to what Ilya said:
 
Hold the torque driver in your hand and so that you see one side of driver arm with 6 torque settings, laser marked on that side. Apply force clockwise to the handle finger groove until handle "breaks over".
Now, do the same, but hold the driver so that you can see the other side of the driver arm with the other 6 torque settings. This time, "break over" force will be different in value. 
 
Two different forces to "break over" handle to the left and to the right of the driver arm are provided by the design of the locking ball detent. When you change the driver arm side, these two forces change places. Because you only use clockwise rotation, only one of two available foces is used for tightening of the fasteners. The other force becomes "active" only when you flip the torque driver over to the other side.      
 
2 pre-set forces x 6 fixed distances = 12 pre-set torque values.   
 

Thank you for your reply. I really like this tool! Wish I had gotten it sooner! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 20:58
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You're very welcome.
 
And please feel free to ask any questions, express concerns or offer suggestions.
 
For those interested, SWFA should have torque driver kits back in stock soon. As I've mentioned, Brady promptly placed an order last week, it just takes me a bit more time to ship them, which typically happens because of the need to take care of some urgent stuff right away upon return from the Shot Show.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 23:13
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by kortik kortik wrote:

Just to add a bit to what Ilya said:
 
Hold the torque driver in your hand and so that you see one side of driver arm with 6 torque settings, laser marked on that side. Apply force clockwise to the handle finger groove until handle "breaks over".
Now, do the same, but hold the driver so that you can see the other side of the driver arm with the other 6 torque settings. This time, "break over" force will be different in value. 
 
Two different forces to "break over" handle to the left and to the right of the driver arm are provided by the design of the locking ball detent. When you change the driver arm side, these two forces change places. Because you only use clockwise rotation, only one of two available foces is used for tightening of the fasteners. The other force becomes "active" only when you flip the torque driver over to the other side.      
 
2 pre-set forces x 6 fixed distances = 12 pre-set torque values.   
 

Thank you for your reply. I really like this tool! Wish I had gotten it sooner! 

It is indeed a really nice tool.  SO nice that I had to buy one despite the fact that Mr. Kortik is permanently off my Hanukkah list (the man thought I was in my mid-50s...)

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2012 at 01:02
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Ilya,
 
I admit I have a vision problem, which causes me often to fail to estimate certain things with required degree of accuracy.  I'm not sure I was wearing glasses when we met, so things like age and distance estimates could have been in error. My fault, and you're certainly a good man in your 20s... 
 
Please forgive me and put me back on the Hannukah list, O.K.?
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2012 at 09:51
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I got mine in the mail last week...Re torquing everything in the safe! A great little tool.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2012 at 10:13
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Sounds like someone got a bit "torqued" about his age! Big Smile 
Kortik, thanks for the explanations on some of the technical details related to torque wrenches.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2012 at 18:07
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Ilya is just kiding, he is a nice guy...
 
Ask me any questions you want, wil be happy yo expain if I can...
 
Thank you all, gentlemen, for your interest and business.
 
Boris
 
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