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binos vs scope brightness

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2007 at 20:54
bow h View Drop Down
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 Hey guys ,       I purchased nikon monarch atb binos in the power of 10x42.      I order a nikon monarch scope in 5.5-16.5x44 ,Will the scope be as bright in low light conditions as the binos?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2007 at 21:03
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I can't wait to see what someone who knows the real answer will say.  I'm guessing that at 10x on the scope, they will be very close.  I think the binos will appear to have better image quality because you are seeing the image with 2 eyes though.

 

This is only a guess.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2007 at 21:16
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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And a good guess it was. You will never see as good through a riflescope as you will through a pair of bino's, especially in this case when comparing optics of similar glass quality. Stereoscopic vs. monoscopic (not a word, but you get the picture). The brain is comparing two images with the bino and only one with the riflescope.

Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 01:47
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Look thru only one side of the binocular for comparison. The scope will have an advantage of adjustable magnification, but at the same power and similar quality levels the monocular will usually have an advantage due to design differences.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 02:17
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There is a number of reasons why you never will be able to see as good in a scope as a binocular.

 

1. eyerelief, the longer eye relief the more straylight will hit the eye and the ocular lens. A rubber eyeshield makes big differances to the picture on scopes.

 

2. Two eyes sees much more than one eye.

 

3. FOV, the more field of view the easyer is it to understand what you are looking at, espesially when it's really dark and at shorter ranges.

 

At ranges less than 100-200 yards I am still able to see better thorugh my 7x50 Zeiss binocular than my Zeiss 6-24x72 Riflescope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 22:44
bow h View Drop Down
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Thanks guys for the info!!          Never owned a good pair of binos so i bought the nikon's  I was trying to get one more deer for the freezer one after

 

noon and two deer stepped  out,I could see them clearly through the bino's raised my gun up could not make out which way they were even facing!!

 

 I have a" well' use too have a Bushnell trophy scope. I have order the nikon monarch to replace it. Has any one had experience with the scope and

 

 will it get me to legal shooting time after sunset verses the bushnell?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 22:54
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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I know I should have asked this earlier, however, are you planning on using this new scope for deer hunting?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2007 at 20:29
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      Sorry , Should have said what the scope was for .    Yes it will be used for hunting deer .  I'm hunting a clear cut that,   I can make a 300yard shot if i wanted to .  That's why the high power. I like to be up close and personal.   The 3-9x40 always stayed mostly on 9 power .   I've read on some of the post that for deer hunting out to 200 to300 yards you don't need anything this strong.   But for me i want to know the spot my cross hairs is on not the area before squeezing the trigger. I guess I've gotten that way  from bowhuntig!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2007 at 07:47
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 I did look through one ocular of my binos. I didn't seem to lose any brightness. Depth perception seemed to suffer however. It may be the brain compensates and picks up the stronger light gathering of a particular eye when looking through bino's and may default to the greater light input if one eye's exit pupil is different from the other. I hazard a guess that the two elements (light and depth) don't reside in the same place inside our heads. I do think some of the other reasons mentioned as to why we see better through binos are 

valid.



Edited by arro222
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2007 at 12:01
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In the amateur astronomy world, we use simple astronomical spotting scopes to aim telescopes. They are mounted piggyback in a manner similar to a rifle scope.

There is always a large difference in optical quality between low end and high end astronomical spotting scopes. We regularly compare bino's to the spotting scopes. The ability to discern faint objects really showcases quality optics. The best of both compare favorably.


From my experience, a rifle scopes optical quality issues are no different at all. Exit pupil and eye relief are a function of lens size and magnification. Light transmission has many factors. Clarity has many factors. In the amatuer astronomy world, optical quality must achieve around 1/4 wavelength (of light) or better, otherwise complaints result.

It is truly a joy to use a small telescope with fantastic optics.

cujet

Edited by cujet
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2007 at 12:13
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Depth perception typically relies upon vision from two eyes, where porro prism binoculars are considered to provide better depth perception than roof prims as the objectives are farther apart. If the objectives are very far apart and you adjust the distance focus on an object, you have a range finder :^)

 

Brightness is often relative as your vision adjusts to different light levels, but a quantitative measure would consider exit pupil and illumination across the exit pupil, as it oftens falls off towards the edges. To compare brightness between two optics try to get magnification and exit pupil matched, otherwise it's an apples and oranges thing, which is also fine if that's what you're also comparing.   

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2007 at 14:29
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1stscope,

 

So true, indeed. If a person is older, the pupil may not dialate as much (pet's say 4.5mm), and therfore a scope with a 7mm exit pupil is partially wasted on that person. They may perceive the scope with a 4mm exit pupil to be just as bright.

 

cujet

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2007 at 15:05
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Well that is not necesarily true and not totally true either.

 

Generally an older person can't get his pupils that big, but looking on an individual level there is people who can.

There is 50 and 60 year old people that sees as good in darkness as 20 year old people.

 

Another thing is if a persons pupil is 7mm and the exit pupil is 7mm and he does not have the head straight behind the ocular but 1 mm ofcenter. Then the light lost will be 25%.

When hunting in low light there is often plenty of time to aim , but suddenly a fox in passing by and you are shooting a snapshop, Not much light hits the eye then.....

 

The only disadvantage with bigger exitpupil than pupil is that the frontlens gets bigger and the scope or binocular heavyer and bigger.

But at the same time the image quality gets much better, the system faster and more convenient.

 

Regards Technika

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2007 at 16:04
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Another benefit of 'too large of an exit' is more even illumination. Most people prefer some drop in light levels at the edges of the field over illuminating the exit pupil more evenly, as more even illumination requires optics that are larger, heavier, more expensive, etc. 

 

Telescopes and binoculars are usually designed with maximum exit pupils of 7mm, some models do better than others at even illumination, but the variable rifle scopes are designed with an acceptable exit pupil at the maximum magnification and they just let it get bigger at lower magnifications. With fixed power a larger than usually recommended exit pupil comes in handy for alignment errors between the eye and ocular on the scope, the longer eye relief than typically seen on binoculars and telescopes contributes to the error. What you end up with on larger than recommended exit pupils is not only easier alignment, but more even illumination across the field.

 

The actual pupil dilation on your eyes 'stops down' the optic, where an example of a 4x40 scope (exit pupil of 10mm) is stopped down to an effective  20mm objective if your eyes are only opened to 5mm.  But the 4x40 will be easier to align, offer better light if your eyes do open up to 7mm in other situations, will be more evenly illuminated than the exit pupil on a 4x20 scope, and everything elese being equal has the possibility of more resolution due to the larger aperture. Rifle scopes don't seem to be as well corrected as other optics where theory can come into play in determining what you can see, so execution seems to count more.   

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2007 at 17:40
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Not sure if this has been stated here already, but anyone can benefit from a larger exit pupil. Larger exit pupils offer more forgiving eye placement behind a binocular as well as less eye strain.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2007 at 17:42
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I sure found out about this when I started wearing prescription glasses behind my optics. A larger exit pupil is definitely more forgiving of eye placement, even with my rifle scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 19:23
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It depends on the scope and the bino's.  I can see a LOT better with my 4200 than with my cheaper Bushnell roof's.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2007 at 22:56
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That says a lot of the quality of you'r binos.

I 'll see better in my better vintage ww2  binoculars than I do in my Zeiss ZF6-24X72, so the recomendation is too look out for a new binocular.

One way of trying you'r way into what you need is to start to borrow different binoculars from friends and look with them during hunting, instead of trying to see something in the gunstore.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 00:44
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I have noticed this many times and can site for you numerous instances where this has occurred with optics of very similar quality.  You almost always can see noticably better with a binocular than with a riflescope of similar quality.  As I have stated before.  For example, a Leica, Swaro, or Zeiss 8x32 with have equal brightness to a Swaro, Zeiss, or S&B scope up to 50mm (I have not used my 56mm enought to say).  And a top of the line 10x42 with outperform these scopes optically.  I spoke on this point in my comparison of Swarovski vs. S&B in the members reviews section.

 

One more point I would like to make is that exit pupil alot of times gets overstated.  Exit pupil does a good job of explaining why a 8x50 bino is brighter than a 10x25.  However exit pupil is just one thing out of many to consider.  First and foremost is glass and coatings.  But people some times think that a 50mm bino or scope is going to be noticably brighter than a 42mm of the same brand.  This is not always the case.  Yes if they have the same glass and coatings, technically it will be brighter but whether it is noticable is another story.  I have been very shocked at how little difference there is when doing side by side testing.

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