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bigger objective vs. better coatings

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 16:45
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I did a side by side compaison with my brother to show him how much good optics are worth. I used a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 against his Winchester branded something or another. I have no idea who made this scope. It is a 3-9x50 with illumination. So here is my question. His Winchester has an exit pupil of 5.55 at 9x vs. my 4.88 at 9x. Theoretically his scope should be brighter at dusk to very last light. I was able to pick up and see things well after he could not see them anymore. Can better glass and coatings overcome a bigger objective for brightness and clarity? It seems to me that a bigger exit pupil should mean more light, but the difference was staggering even for me, and I was the one trying to demonstrate. Also, anyone have any idea how to get him to buy a decent scope to make up for the rifle he won off a $6 raffle ticket?

Edited by trigger29 - April/16/2008 at 16:45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 16:54
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Exit pupil means nothing if the light can't pass through the glass.

I had an ATN with a 60mm objective and my Bushnell Legand with 40mm objective was staggeringly (is that a word?) better.  That is why there is such a price difference between cheap scopes and expensive ones, that glass and coatings add a lot to the cost of making them.

I have an IOR 10x25mm monocular and some Nikon variable binos that are 8-22x-50 or something like that.  The IOR with only 2.5mm exit pupil just blows away those cheapo Nikons when they are both on 10x.  I could not believe the difference.  Good glass and coatings goes along ways is how bright a clear an image can look.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2008 at 23:25
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One thing often forgotten about low light capabilitys are contrast.
And it would gain noghing to have an extremely light picture if there is no contrast.
Peoples ability to see different colours and thus also contrast varies and therefor might different people see better than others to the same optics.
However contrast is problably the single most important factor together with light for low light vision, and good quality optics are of course better than just a big front lens.
 
however if you combine the big frontlens and the high quality, then it's really good and it's almost impossible that high quality 3-12x42 should have better "night vision" than a high quality 3-12x56 at far distance where the magnification is needed.
 
Regards Technika


Edited by www.technika.nu - April/16/2008 at 23:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2008 at 03:17
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Amen to all said above!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2008 at 16:36
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Have him look through a swaro and a cheap scope in the evening at one of the sporting goods stores (outside if possible) one like this http://www.swfa.com/pc-12649-978-new-swarovski-2-12x50-z6-30mm-riflescope.aspx 

If he can`t see the difference he needs his eyes checked badly, after the swaro he can work the price shock down to a Nikon Monarch or Zeiss conquest.
 
Duce Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2008 at 17:47
trigger29 View Drop Down
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The best I have to compare is my Conquest, or Geovid binocs. Buy me a Zeiss Victory, and I'll let him compare them.Big%20Grin Our sporting goods stores around here are terrible, they would never carry anything even close to a conquest. At best I can find a Nikon Buckmaster.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2008 at 17:51
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Well Trigger, it sounds like you better round up some more posts so you can test drive you some nicer optics.  Big%20Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2008 at 21:09
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Originally posted by Duce Duce wrote:

Have him look through a swaro and a cheap scope in the evening at one of the sporting goods stores (outside if possible) one like this http://www.swfa.com/pc-12649-978-new-swarovski-2-12x50-z6-30mm-riflescope.aspx 

If he can`t see the difference he needs his eyes checked badly, after the swaro he can work the price shock down to a Nikon Monarch or Zeiss conquest.
 
Duce Wink
 
The price shock is worth it in every way, IMO.  I replaced a few VXIII 50's with the Z6 42mm and a Kahles 42mm and the difference is worth the extra $$$........Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2008 at 21:22
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Well Trigger, it sounds like you better round up some more posts so you can test drive you some nicer optics.  Big%20Grin
   
 
 Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing Working on it. Gotta "pyro" my post count.Flame%20Thrower
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2008 at 21:29
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As a general rule, better/best glass and fully multi-coated optics will far out way a scope sporting a large objective lense. There is a good reason why Zeiss, Swarovski, Kahles, Schmit & Bender demand the prices they do. All the non-believer's have to do is take a short look and their answer will be very obvious. The human eye can generally only utilize a maximum of 7mm. Beyond that, it is usually just waisted viewing. Also, a bold/heavy reticle goes a long way toward low light viewing, moreso than substandard glass ever will. Good glass, good coatings, high resolution and good internal light management are the key factors for low light performance.
 
Roy


Edited by Roy Finn - April/18/2008 at 21:34
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