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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2013 at 20:27
pc4life View Drop Down
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Driving somewhere? There's a government record of that

Posted: Jul 17, 2013 8:33 AM MDT
Updated: Jul 17, 2013 8:36 AM MDT
By ANNE FLAHERTY

WASHINGTON (AP) — "Chances are, your local or state police departments have photographs of your car in their files, noting where you were driving on a particular day, even if you never did anything wrong.

Using automated scanners, law enforcement agencies across the country have amassed millions of digital records on the location and movement of every vehicle with a license plate, according to a study published Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union. Affixed to police cars, bridges or buildings, the scanners capture images of passing or parked vehicles and note their location, uploading that information into police databases. Departments keep the records for weeks or years, sometimes indefinitely.

As the technology becomes cheaper and more ubiquitous, and federal grants focus on aiding local terrorist detection, even small police agencies are able to deploy more sophisticated surveillance systems. While the Supreme Court ruled in 2012 that a judge's approval is needed to track a car with GPS, networks of plate scanners allow police effectively to track a driver's location, sometimes several times every day, with few legal restrictions. The ACLU says the scanners assemble what it calls a "single, high-resolution image of our lives."

"There's just a fundamental question of whether we're going to live in a society where these dragnet surveillance systems become routine," said Catherine Crump, a staff attorney with the ACLU. The civil rights group is proposing that police departments immediately delete any records of cars not linked to a crime.

Law enforcement officials said the scanners can be crucial to tracking suspicious cars, aiding drug busts and finding abducted children. License plate scanners also can be efficient. The state of Maryland told the ACLU that troopers could "maintain a normal patrol stance" while capturing up to 7,000 license plate images in a single eight hour shift.

"At a time of fiscal and budget constraints, we need better assistance for law enforcement," said Harvey Eisenberg, chief of the national security section and assistant U.S. attorney in Maryland.

Law enforcement officials also point out that the technology is legal in most cases, automating a practice that's been done for years. The ACLU found that only five states have laws governing license plate readers. New Hampshire, for example, bans the technology except in narrow circumstances, while Maine and Arkansas limit how long plate information can be stored.

"There's no expectation of privacy" for a vehicle driving on a public road or parked in a public place, said Lt. Bill Hedgpeth, a spokesman for the Mesquite Police Department in Texas, which has records stretching back to 2008, although the city plans next month to begin deleting files older than two years. "It's just a vehicle. It's just a license plate."

In Yonkers, N.Y., just north of the Bronx, police said retaining the information indefinitely helps detectives solve future crimes. In a statement, the department said it uses license plate readers as a "reactive investigative tool" that is only accessed if detectives are looking for a particular vehicle in connection to a crime.

"These plate readers are not intended nor used to follow the movements of members of the public," the department's statement said.

But even if law enforcement officials say they don't want a public location tracking system, the records add up quickly. In Jersey City, N.J., for example, the population is only 250,000 but the city collected more than 2 million plate images on file. Because the city keeps records for five years, the ACLU estimates that it has some 10 million on file, making it possible for police to plot the movements of most residents depending upon the number and location of the scanners, according to the ACLU.

The ACLU study, based on 26,000 pages of responses from 293 police departments and state agencies across the country, also found that license plate scanners produced a small fraction of "hits," or alerts to police that a suspicious vehicle has been found. In Maryland, for example, the state reported reading about 29 million plates between January and May of last year. Of that amount, about 60,000 — or roughly 1 in every 500 license plates — were suspicious. The No. 1 crime? A suspended or revoked registration, or a violation of the state's emissions inspection program accounted for 97 percent of all alerts.

Eisenberg, the assistant U.S. attorney, said the numbers "fail to show the real qualitative assistance to public safety and law enforcement." He points to the 132 wanted suspects the program helped track. They were a small fraction of the 29 million plates read, but he said tracking those suspects can be critical to keeping an area safe.

Also, he said, Maryland has rules in place restricting access for criminal investigations only. Most records are retained for one year in Maryland, and the state's privacy policies are reviewed by an independent board, Eisenberg noted."

At least in Maryland, "there are checks, and there are balances," he said.

------

Combine this with the administration focus on repealing "stand your ground" state by state. Should be interesting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2013 at 23:24
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Every day it seems, there's some lovely new bit of information to greet us.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2013 at 00:13
hydra7 View Drop Down
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Wow was totally unaware of this, tragic.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2013 at 15:02
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We need a bucket full of various license plates....and change them every few hours....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2013 at 22:15
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First off if you are not doing anything wrong it really doesnt matter what information they collect.  All the evidence in the world is wasted --- unless one has a suspect to match it against and a crime that has been reported.    
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2013 at 08:46
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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I'm not so sure about that. The preface...  "if you aren't doing anything wrong..." can be about the most dangerous rationalization I can think of.

"If you aren't doing anything wrong- then you won't mind if we search your house."

We have a POTUS openly engaged in non- Constitutional behavior and making speeches declaring that he "won't wait for Congress" to implement his decrees and an Executive Branch filled with bureaucratic nightmares just waiting to fulfill those decrees.
We are all familiar with abuses of power by officials at all levels of government.  How close are we to the point where there is no hope left for us as citizens?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2013 at 10:27
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Not that I think it happens often, but sometimes information is misused against someone even if they haven't done anything wrong. Or, take for example, the way many local and state authorities have abused the property confiscation laws that were originally aimed at drug dealers. Keep that in mind the next time you're driving through East Texas: http://blog.chron.com/houstonlegal/2013/08/shocking-government-takings-of-private-property-in-texas/
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2013 at 16:27
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No fixing anything now, the damage has already been done. Pass GO do not collect $200 ~ GAME OVER.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2013 at 15:10
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

I'm not so sure about that. The preface...  "if you aren't doing anything wrong..." can be about the most dangerous rationalization I can think of.

"If you aren't doing anything wrong- then you won't mind if we search your house."

We have a POTUS openly engaged in non- Constitutional behavior and making speeches declaring that he "won't wait for Congress" to implement his decrees and an Executive Branch filled with bureaucratic nightmares just waiting to fulfill those decrees.
We are all familiar with abuses of power by officials at all levels of government.  How close are we to the point where there is no hope left for us as citizens?


Agree totally, Alan!

Plus, "not doing anything wrong" by who's definition? To our current admin, there are a lot of things you can be doing that are perfectly legal that to them is "wrong" -- being an AR15 owner, or just being a Conservative, as examples. We're talking about thoroughly corrupt people who've already demonstrated that they're willing to lie, obstruct justice, cover-up, violate the Constitution, and punish their opposition by using an arm of the fed gov't if necessary to achieve their goals. Our very existence to them constitutes "doing something wrong."
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2013 at 17:22
pc4life View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
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Winds of change today's villain is tomorrows whistle blower whose to say any of these fellas are really on opposing sides. Black spy and white spy ~ one in the same.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2013 at 17:34
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Amen, Ted.
A Massachusetts kid just spent a week in jail for wearing a belt made of dummy cartridges. While the judge eventually released him, it cost his parents a lot of money and cost the kid a week in jail.

After the Boston Marathon bombing, SWAT police were dragging area residents out of their homes and invading the houses to search for the bombers- all without warrants. I read some people's comments saying: "if the residents weren't doing anything wrong..."


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2013 at 20:05
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

I'm not so sure about that. The preface...  "if you aren't doing anything wrong..." can be about the most dangerous rationalization I can think of.

"If you aren't doing anything wrong- then you won't mind if we search your house."

We have a POTUS openly engaged in non- Constitutional behavior and making speeches declaring that he "won't wait for Congress" to implement his decrees and an Executive Branch filled with bureaucratic nightmares just waiting to fulfill those decrees.
We are all familiar with abuses of power by officials at all levels of government.  How close are we to the point where there is no hope left for us as citizens?


Agree totally, Alan!

Plus, "not doing anything wrong" by who's definition? To our current admin, there are a lot of things you can be doing that are perfectly legal that to them is "wrong" -- being an AR15 owner, or just being a Conservative, as examples. We're talking about thoroughly corrupt people who've already demonstrated that they're willing to lie, obstruct justice, cover-up, violate the Constitution, and punish their opposition by using an arm of the fed gov't if necessary to achieve their goals. Our very existence to them constitutes "doing something wrong."


Well said both of you. Plus in this time of huge deficits this just adds big time to it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2013 at 20:22
pc4life View Drop Down
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How The NRA Built A Massive Secret Database Of Gun Owners
While the National Rifle Association publicly fights against a national gun registry, the organization has gone to incredible lengths to compile information on “tens of millions” of gun owners — without their consent.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/stevefriess/how-the-nra-built-a-massive-secret-database-of-gun-owners?s=mobile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2013 at 22:26
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No private database is secret. The only secret is how visible it is.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2013 at 23:19
pc4life View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
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Like I said, we are fubared.
Bradly Manning, Snowden punished for what? Showing the true behavior of the NSA IRS. Data mining in the name of the patriot act/homeland security or marketing for private consumer sales ~ game of cat and mouse.

While gun and ammo sales increase the of households with gun ownership decreases and simultaneously ages. Without fresh ideas and marketing we are losing the ability to influence the next generation on the importance of the 2nd. Up here in the northeast non-gun owners out number gun owners vastly and growing everyday. I don't know of any of my neighbors that even own a firearm in my whole neighborhood, not a one ~ pretty bleak.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2013 at 07:00
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Apparently, you live in the wrong neighborhood! LOL
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2013 at 10:05
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I agree with Alan and Rifledude and BugsNbows. Government is corrupt and someone needs to move to a better neighborhood. Bucky

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2013 at 15:48
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by pc4life pc4life wrote:

Like I said, we are fubared.
Bradly Manning, Snowden punished for what?
It would be a big mistake to compare Manning and Snowden.
Manning- that walking freak show- got a bunch of people killed and clearly aided and abetted a wartime enemy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2013 at 15:51
pc4life View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Originally posted by pc4life pc4life wrote:

Like I said, we are fubared.
Bradly Manning, Snowden punished for what?
It would be a big mistake to compare Manning and Snowden.
Manning- that walking freak show- got a bunch of people killed and clearly aided and abetted a wartime enemy.


I stand corrected. I see nothing wrong with what Snowden did ~ the NSA and IRS are the largest threats we face at this time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2013 at 16:11
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by pc4life pc4life wrote:

Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Originally posted by pc4life pc4life wrote:

Like I said, we are fubared.
Bradly Manning, Snowden punished for what?
It would be a big mistake to compare Manning and Snowden.
Manning- that walking freak show- got a bunch of people killed and clearly aided and abetted a wartime enemy.


I stand corrected. I see nothing wrong with what Snowden did ~ the NSA and IRS are the largest threats we face at this time.
You are on the right track. NSA and IRS are just different tentacles of the same Hydra. Our government is now openly acting outside the constitution in ways which have no purpose other than to secure ever more power of the government over the people.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2013 at 16:43
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Our government has been operating outside the confines of the Constitution for YEARS.....

I'd say Lincoln started the landslide with The War of Northern Aggression, or The War Against States Rights, as I like to call it.      
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2013 at 21:02
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Our government has been operating outside the confines of the Constitution for YEARS.....

I'd say Lincoln started the landslide with The War of Northern Aggression, or The War Against States Rights, as I like to call it.      


I agree.
But, Woodrow Wilson was the real catalyst for progressive direction this country proceeded ~ in fact one of the country's main progressive think tanks is http://www.wilsoncenter.org.
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