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big decision time guys i need some real help here!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 13:36
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i recently bought a remington 700 in 270wsm,  the gun looks good and feels great but now it's time to make the real descision.   I have owned a few leupolds in the past and have NEVER  had anything to complain about them.  But,  I have never even so much looked through the all-mighty swarovski.    I need sme help from some of u guys that have shot both,  i wanna hear the good bad and ugly.   I have absolutely no problem spending 1500 bucks on  a new scope if its worth it but i dont want to get it home and say to myself "i coulda got this same scope ina 700 dollar leupold".   Is there a bigtime difference?  I want a good lowlight scope that will be mainly used for midwest deer but will also be going west for elk and mulies.    so give it to me guys,  if you had 1500 to spend what is the experienced money buying?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 14:07
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The S&B and the SWARO, are worth the money. You will see a difference. Zeiss is a nice scope as well. then there's the IOR. all of these are well worth what you will spend for them. You will see the difference in low light.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 14:10
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lets throw the khales into the mix as well.  have been hearing good things about these scopes ,  many are saying they are on par with swaro but much cheaper.   i need to hear comparison in eye relief (dont really care to bash my forehead every year) and low light conditions are my main concerns
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 14:22
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The Z6 has outstanding glass, I also own a new Zeiss Diavari Classic and the Z6 blows it away.  I have owned Leupolds mostly Vari XIII and VX III with a VX-L mixed in and believe me, the extra money spent will be well worth it.  I've sold several of my Luepolds lately to pay for 2 more Z6's. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 14:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 15:31
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I haven't used one of the new Leupold VX-7s, so I don't know about them, but I own several Leupold Vari-X IIIs and VX-IIIs, in addition to scopes from all the brands mentioned.  I can tell you without a doubt that Swaro, S&B, Zeiss, Kahles, IOR, and a few others are optically superior to Leupold.  I like Leupold scopes; they have a good product line with excellent warranty and customer service, but they aren't in the same league as these brands in terms of optical performance.  Leupold offers many more model and reticle choices than pretty much anyone else, and does offer some niche application scopes where these brands don't have equivalent alternatives in their lineups.
 
Although few would disagree that the scopes mentioned are optically superior to Leupold, whether or not the difference is worth the considerable increase in price is something only you can decide.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 15:34
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I just took a Leupold Vari X lll 3.5x10 40mm off of my A-Bolt 270 WSM and replaced it with a Zeiss Conquest 3.5x10 44mm if that tells you anything. Yes Kahles is worth the money as well, I have two of those. Leupold just doesn't have the glass the German scopes have. You can see a big low light advantage in the Zeiss and Kahles scopes. I probably extended my hunting time in the morning and evening by 20 to 30 min with German glass.Bandito
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 16:07
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Originally posted by darthballs darthballs wrote:

lets throw the khales into the mix as well.  have been hearing good things about these scopes ,  many are saying they are on par with swaro but much cheaper.   i need to hear comparison in eye relief (dont really care to bash my forehead every year) and low light conditions are my main concerns
The Kahles are around 3.6-4in. The leupold's are around 3.6-4.4 in. The Swarovski PH is a little over 3in. The Swarovski American line is about 3.6in. Leupold has a tad better eye relief than all of the others. Although that is probably the only optical advantage over the others. If I was in your postion I would go with a Kahles C or CL. The Swarovski would also be a good one to look at if you want 1" the 30mm scopes will be more than $1500. I think Kahles holds up next to Swarovski especially for how much of a difference there is in price. I have been pondering picking up a Kahles. I have a Swaro american 3-9x36 on a custom built 6.5/284 and I love it. The Kahles is a 3.5-10x50 and it is going on my 240. mag. Lightweight isn't as important on this one as the other so I decided to throw a little bigger obj. on this one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 16:15
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Did Kahles stop making the 2.5-10X50 in the C model?  I see them on the samplelist but not on the mainpage.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 16:27
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keep em comin guys you've all been real helpful.   from what i have heard on here and erad other places the leupold is out and its going to be down to the swaro kahles or zeiss.   the same ?'s apply here.  i dont want money to be a factor for the most part so for now we will say it is'nt.  kahles  is obviously cheaper than the swaro and many are saying they are as clear and sharp as a swaro's are so why the 600 dollar difference?   I dont like spending just to spend but have always found that u get what u pay for.   U guys have more insight to offer me than any factory rep or website so ur opinions will be what i will go by.  maybe just comparing the two at the store is the way to go but am skeptical about lighting conditions in a store compared to real life situations.
so, down to the kahles or swaro guys keep the info coming
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 17:14
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Do you have the ability to go to a good store that will let you take them outside and look thru them?  If you do, I would recommend that, because maybe to your eyes the Swaro will be better and you don't want to find that out later!  I bought the Kahles CL without looking thru it, but money was a concern for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 19:11
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The Kahles CL is a side focus model, but I do not care for a side focus in a hunting scope.  I did purchase TWO Kahles KX, one that I just received from Chris, in the mail TODAY!  There is a KX 3.5-10X50 Plex reticle model that is on the Sample list.  There is not a mark on it, and when Chris says it is nearly new condition, you can take it to the bank.  But, you might not want a Plex mechanical reticle.  Did not bother me, as I got the 4A just below the Plex.
good luck.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 20:35
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 What about a Leupold LPS? I am hearing really good reports locally. I have no personal experience with them, but have been told they are as good as some of the Europeans mentioned here. One guy I know replaced a Swaro with an LPS.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 00:00
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z6 2-12x50.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 09:37
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LEU60030 Leupold%203.5-10x40%20Mark%204%20LR/T%2030mm%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • 1st Focal Plane Tactical Milling Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
SWFA: $1,299.95
More%20Info...
A first focal plane scope will have the same hold over marks at every power.  The big failing of balistic reticles is that they only work at the highest power - not so with this scope.  You have a choice of either dialing in correction for windage and elevation then using the center cross hairs or alternatively using known hold over marks on the TMR reticle. Leupold includes a diagram for 300 win mag and for .308 in the manual which shows you the hold over point.  When shooting at game animals at distances over 300 yds a good range finder and a system of knowing where to hold over or being able to dial in correction makes the difference between hitting the animal and merely launching a bullet in the general direction.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 10:13
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Here is a good deal on a Swarovski and a couple of other possible scopes that might work for you.

7891 Swarovski 3-12x50 PVI-2 57389, Matte finish, Illuminated 4 reticle, high grid, fast focus shock absorbing eye piece, 100% new discontinued model. $2,221.00 $1,899.95
7892 Swarovski 3-12x50 PVI-2 57389, Matte finish, Illuminated 4 reticle, high grid, fast focus shock absorbing eye piece, 100% new discontinued model. $2,221.00 $1,899.95
945872 Schmidt%20&%20Bender%203-12x42%20Variable%20Hunting%2030mm%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Schmidt & Bender 3-12x42 Variable Hunting 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • #7
  • 30mm
SWFA: $1,678.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
TR22R Trijicon%202.5-10x56%20Accu-Point%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Trijicon 2.5-10x56 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Red Triangle
  • 30mm
SWFA: $806.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
I will admit that there are scopes with better glass than the Leupold however there are other factors that must be considered also.  Do you need an illuminated reticle, do you stalk game and need lower powers, do you use a rest and shoot 600 yds.  It all makes a difference in what is right for you.  For me I went with the FFP Leupold as I would rather hit the target than watch it through the worlds clearest glass as it runs off.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/28/2008 at 10:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 16:48
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When I was faced with the same predicament (on a .270 as well), I bought the Swaro American and couldn't be happier.  I like the reticule, I like the weight, I like the light transmission, and I like the repeatability.

If the gun is a light-weight, don't get a scope too big - screws up everything.  I hear great things about the Kahles, I say great things about the Swaro - ballistic reticule.  Money well spent!

Whichever you buy, you'll wish you'd gotten away from Leupold long ago!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 16:51
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

When I was faced with the same predicament (on a .270 as well), I bought the Swaro American and couldn't be happier.  I like the reticule, I like the weight, I like the light transmission, and I like the repeatability.

If the gun is a light-weight, don't get a scope too big - screws up everything.  I hear great things about the Kahles, I say great things about the Swaro - ballistic reticule.  Money well spent!

Whichever you buy, you'll wish you'd gotten away from Leupold long ago!
Ditto
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 17:17
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I know, Chris, Leupold pays the bills, and it is a "good" scope, but...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 22:09
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hey guys,  thanks for all the great info it really helped alot.  i decided to go with the Kahles 3x12 c series and u all were right they are in a different class than the leo's.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 22:39
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Originally posted by darthballs darthballs wrote:

hey guys,  thanks for all the great info it really helped alot.  i decided to go with the Kahles 3x12 c series and u all were right they are in a different class than the leo's.


You got it already??? I guess not from SWFA or the Sample List.


Edited by mike650 - February/28/2008 at 22:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2008 at 22:43
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

When I was faced with the same predicament (on a .270 as well), I bought the Swaro American and couldn't be happier.  I like the reticule, I like the weight, I like the light transmission, and I like the repeatability.

If the gun is a light-weight, don't get a scope too big - screws up everything.  I hear great things about the Kahles, I say great things about the Swaro - ballistic reticule.  Money well spent!

Whichever you buy, you'll wish you'd gotten away from Leupold long ago!


Swarovski Cheers
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 12:30
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Originally posted by darthballs darthballs wrote:

i recently bought a remington 700 in 270wsm,  the gun looks good and feels great but now it's time to make the real descision.   I have owned a few leupolds in the past and have NEVER  had anything to complain about them.  But,  I have never even so much looked through the all-mighty swarovski.    I need sme help from some of u guys that have shot both,  i wanna hear the good bad and ugly.   I have absolutely no problem spending 1500 bucks on  a new scope if its worth it but i dont want to get it home and say to myself "i coulda got this same scope ina 700 dollar leupold".   Is there a bigtime difference?  I want a good lowlight scope that will be mainly used for midwest deer but will also be going west for elk and mulies.    so give it to me guys,  if you had 1500 to spend what is the experienced money buying?


I own a lot of scopes, Kahles, and Swarovski are not among them. Zeiss, Leupold (about 15), Pentax, Burris and Nikon are among some I do own. One of my newest, Leupold European 30mm 2-7x33 is as nice as anything I have ever owned, including Zeiss. That being said, I have to believe that the VX-7 has to be simply awesome then! I do know that if warranty and customer service is considered, there is NO finer scope. Getting another sent to you in Overnight mail to replace a defective or problem scope is da*n good, period! Here's a link to another site I frequent and a product review they did on a VX-7 2.5-10x45. If you cannot open this link email or message me and I'll cut and paste it to you. Not saying there's anything wrong with the high end German scopes, to the contrary, simply suggesting a new, and seemingly awesome alternative. Good Luck!

http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/product_review_page/leupold_VX7_2-10.htm
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 12:40
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take anything chuck hawks says with a grain of salt my friend i think you will find that zeiss kahles and swaro are much better than the vx7 especially when you compare them for cost.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 20:05
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If you  are  comparing the top of the line euro glass i think it would be appropriate to put it up against a VX-7 or not the VX-3.  It always seems that folks want to put the $1500+ against the $600 stuff and proclaim a winner. How do they compare head to head ??? 
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