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Best Sniper Rifle? Caliber?

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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2009 at 20:13
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 The Remington 700 long action is simply too small to adequately handle a cartridge of  the Lapua's physical size.
 Note that they brag about the "external extractor"  they are forced to use on it because they need to mill away so much meat on the bolt face counterbore that the conventional extractor won't even work!
 The receiver is not ridgid enough to support a free-floated barrel of appropriate size for that rounds' capabilities.
 Bad idea overall... 
 Go custom.
what about the 338 and 375 ultra mags.???
back to the op question--- a 210 vld has a flatter traj,   than the 250 , 338 offerings unless you can get them 100 or 200 fps faster than the 338.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2009 at 20:48
Sniper implies that the some sort of chain of command and supply chain going on.  Ya have to feed the thing. Ya have to be able to get spare parts.
 
There only so many rounds that that have a NSN.  .308, .300wm, .50.  I don't think the .338 has a nsn yet.  If you are using the .338 I understand that it is much more portable than a .50 and is for stuff like a hardened wall as well as a an extend range rifle over the .308 or 300wm.  The .338 is better at stuff behind cover, but it is not a .50. You can get a can for both, but what a monster.
 
It's not just how far and how flat, but what it will got through at the other end.  Will it shoot through glass, a car door or concrete block? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2009 at 20:52
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

[QUOTE=RONK] The Remington 700 long action is simply too small to adequately handle a cartridge of  the Lapua's physical size.
 Note that they brag about the "external extractor"  they are forced to use on it because they need to mill away so much meat on the bolt face counterbore that the conventional extractor won't even work!
 The receiver is not ridgid enough to support a free-floated barrel of appropriate size for that rounds' capabilities.
 Bad idea overall... 
 Go custom.
what about the 338 and 375 ultra mags.???
 
  .550" vs .588" head diameter, (by my  memory; I may be mistaken), and I consider them marginal as well. Pull the bolt on one sometime and look at the  rim of steel housing the extractor.  Pretty thin in my opinion.
 My point was that the 700, as good as it is,  really wasn't designed for cartridges that large, and better options exist for one choosing to go the Lapua Magnum route.
  Edited to add: the Quote function malfunctioned. The red sentence is Dale's.
 


Edited by RONK - March/08/2009 at 20:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote www.technika.nu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 01:37
Shooting a TRG in 338 today that I am essentially satisfied with.
But there is a problem with Sakos barrels and they are very difficult to reach the velocity with them.
So I am 150 fps below what I would like.
 
For long range paperpuncing, I do belive that 6,5mm solutions is best/cheapest way.
.338 is terrible expensive even when handloading, and for a non handloader it's b.....y expensive.
The trajectory/vindage from the faster 6,5 is as good as the .338.
 
I can personally not understand why the .308 is considered as a sniping caliber for anything else than police work.
The trajectory and wind is just terrible and I can't see it as a good round for anything else than short range, short barrel carry rifles.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 09:29
sometimes the rules of the game preclude other offerings, a good example is not being able to use two hands in NRA bullseye, a physical limit on the player, another is not being able to use a sub in IPSC, a physical on the machine. target shooting games are sometimes like NASCAR only left turns are allowed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 18:07
RONK,
 
The 338Ultra is a better case design and though a shoe-horn fit,it do nice things when 700 based. As to "malady" associated it upon that platform,it is no more compromised than an H&H face,which has much water under the bridge there.
 
Floating a tube is much over rated and I'm typically at ease with a neutral FL job...mainly because they've no fickle qualms.
 
 
It is a straight 1.350" from stem to stern on a s/a 700 and it routinely dazzles. (Urban in back)
 
 
Tough to whip the 338Ultra if musing a capacious .338"..................
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 18:12
Bang for the buck,despite my longterm Winchester despise,my secondhand Coyote 7WSM really is a capable machine.
 
 
With Badger ring/rail and a 3.5-10x M3,getting to 1K and beyond is both fast and easy,as well as very predictable. Have 7WSM's in Kimber Montana and custom 700 as well.
 
My 7-08 love remains boundless as well,though the WSM will shoot "through" conditions far more easily................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 18:41
Dale liked this CLIP and I gotta side with him,despite the bias and it being difficult to shoot when laughing that hard.
 
710yd results from the clip(triangulated via loaded rounds).
 
 
Prolly did it nio favors in resale value,but it remains one of my absolute favorite rifles of all time and that'd encompass a few to reflect upon..................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 19:00
For the buck,the 1-9" 223LTR punched 223AI,is a very nice way to fly. 75A-Max at 3100fps+,very modest powder appetite,the brass is all but "free" and it is very forgiving in nature,which means it'll get used a bunch. Easy to fall in love with a .435BC and 26grs of powder,as a long range recipe for fun.
 
Excuse the A5 handle.
 
 
Would love to see them introduce a S/S LTR twisted 1-8" in both 223 and 22-250.................
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 21:02
Originally posted by Relentless Pursuit Relentless Pursuit wrote:

Dale liked this CLIP and I gotta side with him,despite the bias and it being difficult to shoot when laughing that hard.
 
710yd results from the clip(triangulated via loaded rounds).
 
 
Prolly did it nio favors in resale value,but it remains one of my absolute favorite rifles of all time and that'd encompass a few to reflect upon..................
 
That clip is hilarious! Looks like the way I broke the last one in.Big Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relentless Pursuit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2009 at 03:59
I clean to bare metal,degrease and start pounding moly,on every new bore. The above rifle was at about 700rds,when I shot the above cluster. In nice conditions,when I'm not laughing,it will really pile them into a knot.
 
Have a bunch of tubes well over 1K round counts,less maintenance. "Break-in" and "cleaning" are two of my favorite Fables.
 
From inception I purposely looked to be "mean" to the above rifle,as an R&D curiousity and it keeps on impressing me. She long ago made the grade and keeps chooglin'. I can't make her puke,despite trying to do just that. I'm lucky to be blessed with a climate to really wring stuff out in.(pun intended)
 
 
 
I tote it most everywhere and in all conditions,trying to find a weakness...to no avail................ 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2009 at 13:54
Here is the original question again.
 
Originally posted by drd34 drd34 wrote:

What do you want when you want to really reach out and touch someone? My vote goes to the Sako TRG-42. While I really like the .338 Lapua what do you think about the .300 Win Mag? Just wondered what you guys thought...
 
 
We have a pile of long range test rifles that we use on prototype, pre-production and first run production SS scopes.

Our main man (Michael McDonald) shoots them at ranges up to 1,000 yards.  What do you think is the best is M.M.?  I pulled out three two of your favorites (I forgot you don't really like the Barrett).  Get a note from your Dr. because you will be wearing the barrels out on these very soon. Wink

Accuracy International Lapua, TRG Lapua, Barrett BMG
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2009 at 14:10
So... what do you have against 20mm?
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2009 at 14:55
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

So... what do you have against 20mm?
 
Tank Uhmmm, availability of ammo. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2009 at 17:10
Chris you know I'm the Englishman's biggest fan, but I'll take the Sako for a combination or reliability and accuracy.
I've seen the head to head with the AI using the same shooter and the same ammo and the Sako wins.  Yours just needs butt and cheek spacers to be perfect.
 
We can run the Barrett if you want, but it would be for recoil cycling since the accuracy just isn't there over 600 yards.  It's not going to break THOSE scopes anyway  :)


Edited by Mike McDonald - March/21/2009 at 17:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2009 at 20:44
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

So... what do you have against 20mm?
 
Tank Uhmmm, availability of ammo. 

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/brashco/page2.html
Expensive, maybe, but you need less, " more BANG for the buck...", so to speak.
Can also be had for less...


Edited by Kickboxer - March/21/2009 at 20:45
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2009 at 01:23
   Unless you are a soldier in combat in known hostile enemy enviroment you have no business shooting at someone at a thousand yards any way because you dont know who the hell your shooting at and only one in ten million represents a threat at that distance.  One cant tell at that distance who it is. Target identification and engagement should be done with some sense of rational thought process and a deep concern for avoiding freindly fire casualties. 

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/31/2009 at 22:07

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Quote) Unless you are a soldier in combat in known hostile enemy enviroment you have no business shooting at someone at a thousand yards any way because you dont know who the hell your shooting at.  One cant tell at that distance who it is. Target identification and engagement should be done with some sense of rational thought process and a deep concern for avoiding freindly fire casualties.Quote)
 
 
 
Its a Quigley thing. Or a sniper wanna be. You know, "keep your enemy at a distance". Quigley was an admirable charactor, but a fictional charactor non the less. We should strive to be as proficient as we can with what we have. I admittedly fit the sniper wanna be from not having the oppertunity when requested. My unit didn't see need for snipers, so my request repeatedly fell on deaf ears. Now I'm past the reasonable age and too broken up to be proficient at it. Yet I am still building a rifle for distance. An expensive venture that will not likely hold the same market value that I will have in it. But I will improve my skill over time because of it.
I wonder who makes up the larger numbers, seeking these long range cals. Active and ex-military or folk who have never served but are inspired by what they see and hear. My guess is those who are or have served. Atleast I hope so. That would be the better of the two. I you have been in combat "Hopefully" you understand collateral damage and target
identification. These are just words to those who haven't been in a situation. Anybody that has stood over a child that lay in peices and the mom insane with grief and wondering was it one of mine that did that. It's a whole different world. Fortunatly I wasn't that one, but I have counseled a few.
I reserve my distance shooting to target and I do expect to harvest deer out to 700yds. But having some personal understanding of hard choices and life in the trip of a hammer. I am fortunate in an unfortunate way of comprehending the possible consiquences of dropping the hammer. How many out there, for what ever reason are buying/building long range fire and shouldn't be?
Alot of us see storms on the horizon and are in our own way making preparations. But the real application for long range arms will be very low, mabe zero. I'm sure the majority are interested for non combat reasons and that is our right, but it does add a serious eliment of tragedy if the inexperienced ever choose to go there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2009 at 12:11
I think it has a lot to do with just the quality of the product. Until recently, 10 years ago, custom actions such as GAP, Surgeon, EDM etc. didn't exist. A bolt action is a bolt action is a bolt action, and in a lot of ways dated. Some one with a bunch of money to spend has just as many rights as someone who has a preceived need. Quite a few folks buy racing Porsches with no intend of ever racing. And a whole bunch of folks buy NFA weapons with no specific need. Aligning the right to purchase with the need, walks a thin line on gun control
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2009 at 13:06
pardon me but I've seen more gap rifles fail at no stress no hardship matches than I'd care to remember.
You want to talk TacOps and hard duty?  FBI HRT rifles go from safe to case to bipod or tripod to case to safe.  Sounds just like range queen duty to me.
 
All an accurate rifle is, is a straight barrel with a chamber cut concentric to the bore and screwed to an action, trued or not.
You guys sure as hell need to type less and shoot a hellova lot more.
I'm on my way out the door to shoot in 24-32 mph gusting, variable  winds on the 1000 yard line because I can't get better at shooting by typing.


Edited by Mike McDonald - March/22/2009 at 13:09
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