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Best options for magnification on PS90?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2009 at 17:35
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ICK, Ed's BOY

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Optics noob here.
 
I currently have a Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T on my M4:
 
 
The scope is great, but it is so darn heavy.  I have owned it since March of 2003 and it works perfect for my M4..
 
In May of '07 I bought my PS90 and went SBR.
 
 
As you can see I put an Ultra-Dot Pan-V on it:
 
 

However I am finding that my eyes are REALLY awful.  The PS90 is great with that sight at under 50 yards... but I find that over that range that dot is just too big and my eyes too bad to have any effectiveness.

 

I absolutely LOVE this weapon for a wide-open field of view and quick target access.  For that purpose the Ultra Dot Pan-V is great, but I find myself wanting magnification in my older age.

 

So here is what I am looking for.  I am looking for a light-weight solution to pickup some magnification like my Mark 4 CQ/T of approx 3x or so.

 

Option 1

I have heard of guys getting those magnifiers that attach to rails with your existing red-dot or holographic.  They flip back and forth so you can have it in place when you want it or flip it away when you don't want the magnification.  Anyone have experience with those?  What the heck are those things called?

 

Option 2

If I do get one of those, I am not sure my Ultra-Dot Pan V is the red-dot to use with it.  That Dot is ALREADY seems rather large and I can imaging having to look through this huge splotch when I use the magnifier, wouldn't that be true?  What holographic or red-dot would work best? I would hate to have to get another holographic.  Those huge boxy holographic systems I see on weapons might be a bit much for my taste.

 

Option 3

A standard size ACOG would give me magnification and simplicity but I have two questions on those.  1. Can you rotate the magnification like I do on my Mark 4 CQ/T?  2. Wouldn't that size of a scope screw with my weight and balance of what is supposed to be a close quarters weapon?  Aesthetically I am also concerned that a full size ACOG would look overbearing over such a small and light frame.  Who wants a dumb looking weapon if that can be avoided?

 

Option 4

I read somewhere&n

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2009 at 17:52
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ACOGs are fixed power.  A compact  ACOG in like 2 or 3x would be sweet for tha little gun  http://www.swfa.com/c-226-trijicon-compact-acog-rifle-scopes.aspx

How about a 1-4x of some sort.  There are a lot of brands of them that would do the trick in any price range.  Trijicon, Leupold, IOR, Kahles, Swaro, Bushnell, Meotpa, etc etc.  That would give you the best of both worlds. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2009 at 18:03
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While the PS 90 doesnt do much for me personally as it appears to be designed for a fire fight in a phone booth I would think that the correct red dot would be ideal on it.  I really like the Aimpoint Comp M4. I also look at this gun and it just screams EOTech however the only ones of those that are magnified are the flip flop set up that I am not convinced is really the best of either world.  I have a TA442 Trijicon that I really like the 1.5x however they make 2x and 3x models but note the eye relief and field of view when you compare them.  I remember one guy posted a photo of one of these PS90 's which had the Trijicon Tripower  1x on it and aparently he was very happy with it.   Cheaptrick bought one of these recently  
11910 Aimpoint Micro H-1 Red Dot Sight                                                                                        Aimpoint Micro H-1 Red Dot Sight
  • Matte
  • 4 MOA Dot
  • 30mm
  • Weaver-Style Mount Included
  • Submersible to 15 feet
SWFA: $519.95
More Info... Buy Now
but I would prefer the 2moa dot  like the Comp M4.  Here is the flip flop thing
5573XFTS EOTech 557 Military Holosight                                                                                           EOTech 557 Military Holosight
  • .223 Ballistic Reticle
  • 3X Magnifier
  • Flip-To-Side Mount with Quick Detach
  • Compatible with Gen I-IV Night Vision Systems
SWFA: $878.95
More Info... Buy Now
And this is what I like:
TA442 Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope                                                                                Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
  • Amber Triangle BAC
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
SWFA: $839.95
More Info... Buy Now
ARMS19S ARMS #19S Acog Single Throw Lever Mount                                                                                 ARMS #19S Acog Single Throw Lever Mount
  • For Trijicon ACOG
  • Shorter than ARMS19ACOG
SWFA: $113.95
More Info... Buy Now
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2009 at 18:07
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Or  you could point and shoot:
42010 ATN Visible Laser Target Acquisition Device                                                                             ATN Visible Laser Target Acquisition Device
  • Red Needle
SWFA: $498.95
More Info... Buy Now
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2009 at 18:13
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I think a Compact ACOG would fit this weapon perfectly.  There 1.6x15, 2x20 and 3x24 version.  I am playing with a 3x24 and it is a great little sight.  I should have a review ready in a little bit (I'll have to sell it to fund other toys and that will hurtBoo Hoo).  Compact ACOGs come with two different mounts, one very high, for an AR, and another, fair bit lower for other guns.  I am playing with the lower mounting type (called special ring base), which I think would work well on your PS90.  It is not a variable magnification sight, but the magnification is still low enough to be very fast.  THe best part is that the sight is incredibly compact with length of 4 - 5 inches and weight of 4 - 6 ounces, depending on the model.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2009 at 09:44
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ICK, Ed's BOY

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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

but I would prefer the 2moa dot  like the Comp M4.  Here is the flip flop thing
5573XFTS EOTech 557 Military Holosight                                                                                           EOTech 557 Military Holosight
  • .223 Ballistic Reticle
  • 3X Magnifier
  • Flip-To-Side Mount with Quick Detach
  • Compatible with Gen I-IV Night Vision Systems
SWFA: $878.95
More Info... Buy Now

The problem I have noted with my EXISTING holographic is that when you look through a magnificaiton device the red dot is HUGE.   Well, OK, perhaps not HUGE but it is rather large.  How is the dot in that holosight?  Is my current holographic too low-end?  Would I find this to be ideal?
 
Here is another question about this system, how high above the rail system of the PS90 would the line of sight be?  Is there any way to know that without getting my hands on the sysem and measuring it myself?
 
What is the overall length of that system?  The info doesn't say.
 
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

And this is what I like:
TA442 Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope                                                                                Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
  • Amber Triangle BAC
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
SWFA: $839.95
More Info... Buy Now
ARMS19S ARMS #19S Acog Single Throw Lever Mount                                                                                 ARMS #19S Acog Single Throw Lever Mount
  • For Trijicon ACOG
  • Shorter than ARMS19ACOG
SWFA: $113.95
More Info... Buy Now
Here again, my question is, with the thow lever mount, how high does the optic end up?   I do have a Leupold Mark IV CQ/T that has 1 to 3x, and 1.5 times doesn't seem like much magnification.


Edited by Ick - February/10/2009 at 09:46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2009 at 10:42
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The dot is not any bigger in relationship to the target though ICK.  The dot grew 3 times, but so did the target, so in reality nothing has changed.  You should still be able to shoot the exact same.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2009 at 11:05
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Do you guys sell those flip-magnifiation things sold separately?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2009 at 14:03
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

The dot is not any bigger in relationship to the target though ICK.  The dot grew 3 times, but so did the target, so in reality nothing has changed.  You should still be able to shoot the exact same.
 
Supertool, wouldn't the dot on my sight be bigger?  Here is my understanding of how my optic works, and how the flip-magnification works.
 
 
With my Leupold CQ/T the circle dot reticule I see is actually between the magnification area and my eye.  With the flip-optic I am actually magnifying both the red-dot AND the distant target.  Isn't the dot going to be bigger?
 
The dot on my red dot is irregular, sloppy and large now.  Isn't it going to be even larger?
 
Perhaps it is time for me to get a quality holographic if I purchase the flip-up magnifyer.
 
Man, I am having a hard time describing this.  I think I am up to edit #10 with this one post.


Edited by Ick - February/11/2009 at 14:16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2009 at 10:17
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Don't get the magnifier.  Let everyone fix the problems, then get later.

Or buy something else.

Yours is not a long-range weapon, I'd advise 1X optic, both eyes open, fast on target, good enough for 100-yard shot if needed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2009 at 14:56
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Your right Ick the dot will get 3 times bigger but so will the target so the relationship stays the same.  Putting magnification between you and the dot is the same thing as a First Focal point scope.  The reticle or dot in this case grows at the exact same rate as the target.  So if your dot covers 3 moa at 100 yards at 1x and you put a magnifier between your eye and the dot then then both the dot and the taget both grow 3 times and it will still be cover 3 moa's on the target.   They are just both magnified 3 times so they are both bigger. 

If you were to put the magnifier behind the red dot between the dot and target then only the target would grow.  Suddenly your dot would turn into a 1 moa dot becase the target is now closer but the dot stayed the same size.  That is what an Second Focal plane scope does.  It magnifies the target but the reticle never changes size.

you have your diagram backwards for a second focal plane scope which your Leupold is the reticle actually sits between your eye and the magnification part of the scope.

If you ever get a chance to look through an FFP scope while turning the power up and down you will see what I mean.  And the highest mag, the reticle gets pretty big.  At the lowest power you can hardly see it.  But the size of the reticle always remains the same throughout the power range relative to the size of the taget.
Hope that makes sense.

Here is a good explanation of FFP vs SFP.  http://www.premierreticles.com/PDF%20Files/First%20Focal%20Plane%20and%20Second%20Focal%20Plane%20Reticles.pdf
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2009 at 15:20
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That is great, now I understand a little better.  When I get home tonight I will look at my red-dot through my 3x scope and see what you mean.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2009 at 16:59
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TAG to find this tomorrow.  I never did get a better optic for this weapon.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2009 at 18:38
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What is a reasonable max effective range of the PS30?

ACOG would work, as would several different versions of Aimpoint.

Do you need to be able to hit something out to or past 100 yards with this?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2009 at 20:44
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I'm thinking you want something with magnification but something that lays low so how about some 30mm low rings and one of these:
731424M Bushnell 1-4x24 Trophy 30mm Rifle Scope                                                                                 Bushnell 1-4x24 Trophy 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • 4A w/ Illuminated Dot
  • 30mm
SWFA: $144.95
More Info... Buy Now
I dont really like the flip flop thing but LaRue has a 3x Heinsoldt flip flop magnifyer with mount that would work with your current dot.  Not sure how many moa your dot is but if its more than 2moa  the magnifyer multiplying it 3x is really going to suck. All in all a low power variable like the one above that can be mounted really low sounds like a good option to me. I really like the Trijicon accupoints as well so if you are willing to spend the money
TR24 Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope                                                                             Trijicon 1-4x24 Accu-Point 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Amber Triangle
  • 30mm
SWFA: $764.95
More Info... Buy Now


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - April/29/2009 at 20:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2009 at 09:48
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

And this is what I like:
TA442 Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope                                                                                Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
  • Amber Triangle BAC
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
SWFA: $839.95
More Info... Buy Now
ARMS19S ARMS #19S Acog Single Throw Lever Mount                                                                                 ARMS #19S Acog Single Throw Lever Mount
  • For Trijicon ACOG
  • Shorter than ARMS19ACOG
SWFA: $113.95
More Info... Buy Now
I think I like this option the best.  I agree that no magnificiation works well with this particular weapon, but my eyes suck.  I just can't seem to hit much beyond 50 yards with the red-dot I have now.
 
Is there some special order procedure or just do a cart and order like any schmo out there?  Is there some kind of special discount that Ed give out freely?
 
Here is the ballistics chart on the PS90, does it answer your effective range question?....
 
 
The green and blue lines are the civillian ammo.


Edited by Ick - April/30/2009 at 09:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2009 at 12:32
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Your corrected vision makes seeing a target at 50 yards tough?

If that is true, I'd get LOTS of field of view on any scope; the importance of FLAWLESS target identification cannot be overstated.
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