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huntfish
Optics GrassHopper Joined: May/02/2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Posted: September/12/2006 at 20:54 |
Hello, I have a new kimber 84m in 260 rem and want to put on the best scope I can, what would that be? I am considering Swarovski, Kahles, Ziess, VX111 or Elite 4200 up to around 8-9 power for ranges 300yds max.
Thanks Edit: Low light performance is critical, as is waterproofness. (is there such a word?) |
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ceylonc
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/13/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 514 |
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Do you have a budget? How much you looking to spend? There is a big difference between a $400 Bushnell 4200 and a $1,400 Zeiss Divari.
Congrats on the purchase! Sounds like a great rifle. I've checked out the Montana and they're really nice. You're going to LOVE the .260 Remington round. Whitetail drop like they've been hit by lightening when hit with 120gr. ballistic tips. |
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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I have a Kimber 84 Classic in .260. You are going to love it. .260 is one of those calibers that kills "deader than it should". Something about the sectional density and length of those 6.5mm bullets (I prefer Nosler 120 gr Ballist Tips at aobut 3000 fps for my whitetail and hog hunting. I've got a Leupold FX III 6X42 on this rifle and like it a lot.
I just bought a Montana in .243 (See 'new rifle" post below in Anythng Goes) and chose a Kahles CL 2-7X36 for it. I didn't want anything bigger on a trim, lightweight rifle like the Montana. If you really think you need 9X, the Kahles CL 3-9X42 is as good or better than anything I've seen. As far as low light performance, I've used a Leupold VX III 2.5-8X36 for a good while and have always had enough light for legal shooting hours. The FX III is better, and I expect the Kahles to be, too. I'll have it tomorrow. |
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huntfish
Optics GrassHopper Joined: May/02/2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Thanks guys. ceylonc price not an issue, just want an awesome rig. As for power range, I don't need 9x. I have a VX111 2.5-8 on a sako vixen .222 and really like it and would happily consider another as an option but wanted to know if there is substantially better avaliable. Do the euorpeans perform that much better? I have the opportunity to do it right from the start and purchase whatever I want, hence the questions for those who know a lot more about it than me.
Thanks again. |
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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Those who know me know I am no huge fan of Leupold, but I don't feel that you will see a "substantial" difference with the above mentioned euro's. The difference is there, no doubt about that. Perhaps one of the new midrange Zeiss Conquests would be right up your alley. They are better than Leupold's optically, but cost less than the Kahles CL or Swarovski AV's. If price is truly not an issue, an AV in 3-9x36 would be the cat's meow for that trim rifle. I don't think you are going to to like the looks of the rifle with a 40-42mm objective hanging out there, I didn't on my Kimber 7-08. Hope this helps.
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Hello Huntfish
See Mwyates "New rifle" post in the anything goes section, I fell he has a exellent setup that is perfectly matched. I would not go with anything over a 36mm obj for your rifle. I second the swarovski AV 3-9x36 as a alternative. As far as "best money can buy" scopes I feel that those scopes will not be a good match for your rifle(to big). |
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huntfish
Optics GrassHopper Joined: May/02/2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Great comments and very helpful, thanks. Yes I like the set up mwyates has and will now decide between the Av 3-9 and the VX111 2.5-8. Still open to more usefull feedback if anyone has something else to add.
I read this site a lot and think it is awesome, the only negative for me is that they do not ship internationally so I can't support them financially. So thanks SWFA for a great site. |
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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The 6X42 I have on my Kimber looks OK, but it is a short scope and it fits in low rings. Other 40-42mm scopes required medium rings.
I'm anxious to see the Kahles CL 2-7X36. About a year ago I had the Swaro 3-9X36 and the Kahles CL 3-9X42 side by side for a couple of days. The CL was way better; not so much brightness, but the view through the CL's is amazing. The new enlarged ocular makes the view thrugh other scopes seem limited. After looking through the CL, most other scopes looked like the 3/4" Redfield I've got on one of my old .22's.
The Swaro is agreat scope, but once you look through a CL, you won't like the Swaro.
I'm hoping the 2-7 will be the same. |
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huntfish
Optics GrassHopper Joined: May/02/2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Cheers, is the CL the multi-zero one? We do not get the AH as you do, we get what they call the CT (compact I think) but also have just started getting the multi-zero scopes. To me the only benefit of the multi-zero I would find is that I would be able to set it up for different bullet weights as I wouldn't need 3 or 4 long distance ranges. Hmmm, more food for thought. Will be trying some this week. Thanks.
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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The CL in America comes in both Muti-Zero an non Multi-Zero. It is of much better quality than the AH we get here in America. |
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Narrow Gap
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/16/2006 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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I will suggest either the Zeiss Diavari with either a 3 post German style reticle or illuminated reticle. Hard to beat this set up in extreme low light. I would take a look at the Schmidt & Bender Zenith in the 3 post German reticle or illuminated reticle. These scopes I mentioned are very expensive, from $1350 to a little over $2000 US dollars, but they are the very best riflescope money can buy.
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huntfish
Optics GrassHopper Joined: May/02/2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Thanks, I have had a look at the S&B, Nightforce and Ziess but they are quite heavy and would likely detract from the advantages of a light and handy set up. I think it will be a VX111 2.5 -8 or tha Kahles 2-7 x 36
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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Bad news. The Kahles CL 2-7X36 won't work on my Kimber 84. The big objective bell doesn't provide enough clearance for the bolt handle.
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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You could try reversing the scope. Objective up front.
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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Can't you use "higher" rings or am I missing something?
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take em!
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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I could, but I've tried medium rings on a Kimber and it felt all wrong. I don't think you could use the Kahles lens covers even with medium rings.
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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From everything I've heard about how wonderfull the Kahles are, I'm thinking the Leupold is better than given credit for if you are opting for it! Would that be a fair conclusion?
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take em!
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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The VX III is very good if it is not a low light situation. Good low light glass costs money, Kahles CL has the low light advatage at a exeptional price. If low light performance is not a feature you are looking for then you can save alot of money and go with something down the ladder.
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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Tip69, you are correct, but you have to take into account I'm the "Leupold guy" here. The VX III 2.5-8X36 has never caused me to miss a legal shot, but there have been a few times I wished for something brighter. Those times were VERY late, and probably past legal shooting hours. It is a fine scope, especially if you want small and light weight.
SVD666, the Kahles would have some advantage, and not just in low light. It is a superior scope, as it should be for twice as much money. I hated sending it back, but ...
If I upgraded for the Montana, I'd probably get a VX-L 3-5-10X50. I have one on another rifle and like it. The big objective looks a little funny on a trim rifle, but you can use low mounts, and that helps a lot. It has noticeably better low light performance than the 2.5-8X36, and is still less money than the Kahles. |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
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Yes I agree the VX-L would be a better choice than the VX III and I have seen some very good prices on the VX-L recently. I am intrested in the Red Mist LRXV for a custom benchrest rifle that I want to build and I will be keeping a eye on this scope. Mwyates I heard a couple of reports of people having problems with the VX-L breaking on them but I have not seen one fail myself, do you have any info on this.
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