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Best long range accuracy for .308

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 00:15
Savage11B View Drop Down
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howdy shooters, so I am just now getting into reloading so ver much a noob, I am reloading for quantity for my pistol rounds, but want accuracy for my rifle rounds, mainly .308 and 6mm. The main question I have is about .308, I have a Savage 10 FCP-K with 9 rate of twist, I am shooting out to 1000 m, and am looking for a good recipe, but mainly a good bullet, if anyone has any input please let me know. Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 01:47
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Savage, isn't the .308 a 10 twist? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 02:59
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    I don't shoot that far, and my .308 is an AR-10 so it has to be crimped. Lapua brass, CCI BR-2, Berger 175 VLD, 44.5 Gr of Varget. COL 2.850. Very accurate to 300 yds. Thats as far I practice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 06:19
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wow, yes it is 10 twist, I have no idea what I was thinking, but thanks for the fix..
tejas, thanks for the input, do you believe the berger is worth the money?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 06:49
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I'm not a 1000 yard shooter, but have listened to and read writings from those that do. Seems 175 gr Sierra Match Kings are used a lot.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 09:01
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It is more about which brand(s) of bullet your barrel likes.
In comp shooting the answer is, "Yes," since if "X" bullet brand definitely shoots better than another for your barrel, the cost of said bullet is worth it.
Originally posted by Savage11B Savage11B wrote:

tejas, thanks for the input, do you believe the berger is worth the money?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 09:25
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I load mainly the 190 gr Sierra Matchking and use Sierra book with their max load using Varget powder.  I do know of people shooting more powder than the max load but venture there at your own risk.  The Berger bullets are a better bullet but they are about double the price.  One should look real hard at the bullets in the 190 to 205 grain weight and try Sierra, Berger, Barnes, Horniday etc until one finds a load they can live with.  I do have some other advise on .308 for what it is worth. You will probably need to trim cases fairly often.  And buy this early on to save yourself some grief in the long run.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 09:50
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hmm, thanks for the input, I can't put any rounds through it right now, but will soon, I have found market ammo that my barrel likes, but like I said, I have just started reloading so I haven't been able to try many different things. I do want the best accuracy I can get, but if I can come under the price of match box ammo I will be very happy.  
imaginaryfriend: thanks for the insight, so you like a heavier round like that? I've been sticking with around 180 as low as 168, I'm not looking for as much take down power, but mainly accuracy at long distances. I would like to get more into comp shooting in Texas, but that's on down the line.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 10:39
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Originally posted by Savage11B Savage11B wrote:

wow, yes it is 10 twist, I have no idea what I was thinking, but thanks for the fix..
tejas, thanks for the input, do you believe the berger is worth the money?

    They are worth the money to me because they shoot good from my AR. The VLD is also an explosive hunting bullet,  I've only used it on coyotes though. I use the Barnes TTSX for hogs. Since your just getting into reloading I would recommend the Sierra mentioned above or the Hornady 195 match BTHP.

You can always try the Bergers later if you like. They are trickier to reload and the experience with the other bullets will help you. The Bergers don't seem to like much "jump" and if you get them all the way into the lands it WILL cause a pressure spike. To get them that long you may also have to load them straight into the chamber, one by one. I don't load mine that long as I'm shooting an AR as I mentioned. Good Luck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 10:52
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I shoot basically the same rifle. My load is 168 AMAX, 44.4 grs varget at 2.80col, BR II primers, hornady brass. This load is VERY consistant 1/2 inch if I do my part. I have rung steal plates out to 700 with this load. 

Just remember every gun is different. I recommend working up a similar load. Start at 44 grns and work up to 46grns. Let us know what it likes. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 23:52
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Tejas, thanks for the input, I'm not really looking for a hunting round, I have a modified yugo sks that I like for spotlighting hogs, and a 6mm for deer. This is purely my reach out and touch a plinker gun, or the reach out and touch a zombie, one never knows. but i will try some heavier rounds and see how my rifle likes it, who knows, it might love 200's..   thanks for berger info, I will be sure and take that into account when I start playing with some rounds.  
 
Jselsor, I like your recipe a lot, I have found with box ammo that my rifle likes around a 165-175 grain the most, I will be sure and try this one out. and yeah I'll post a work up on the rounds I use, it'll be after I get stateside though..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 22:43
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We all seem to agree on Varget. I wish my rifle would shoot as well with Benchmark. It meters a whole lot better and speeds up the whole reloading process. While your developing loads you might try it. Works great in 6.8 SPC and 204 Ruger for me. You may lose a Fps though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 02:08
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yeah, that's what I've been noticing as well about Varget, everyone has at least some loads with varget. but yeah I'll try it out, I might try it on 6mm, I have yet to even start playing with many box rounds with it, so we shall see what I can do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 07:10
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IMHO, the best recipe for a long-range 308, is a re-barrel to 260 remington! I am actually going to re- barrel my 300WSM to 260. All around it is a better round for what you are describing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 02:46
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well thank you for your humble opinion, but yeah, not going to happen right now. I have barely enough money to pay for the stuff I need to buy when I'm home, maybe later though, e-5 pay isn't all it's cracked up to be.. but thanks for the option, I'll look at it later.
Does anyone here shoot 6mm long distance? I haven't really been able to play with it much at all, but I am curious to see how she handles over 300m.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 09:19
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I have 6x47 Lapua, 243 Win, and 6-284 that I shoot out to 1k.  I have taken the 6-284 to a one time.

Originally posted by Savage11B Savage11B wrote:

well thank you for your humble opinion, but yeah, not going to happen right now. I have barely enough money to pay for the stuff I need to buy when I'm home, maybe later though, e-5 pay isn't all it's cracked up to be.. but thanks for the option, I'll look at it later.
Does anyone here shoot 6mm long distance? I haven't really been able to play with it much at all, but I am curious to see how she handles over 300m.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 17:20
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A combo that some Palma (800, 900, 1000) shooters use is 47 gr. of Varget with a 155 Sierra Palma bullet, when shot out of a 28 or 29 inch barrel velocities are about 3,000 fps.
 
Another combo are the various 175 gr. match bullets used with Varget. The new Hornady 178 bthp should be a good long range .308 W load despite relatively low velocities in the 2600 fps range.
 
My rifle has a 23 inch 1-10 twist barrel and I shoot 155 gr Hornady Amaxes with 46 gr. of Varget. This load compares very well with 105 gr. 6mms (.243 W @ 2850 fps) and 123 gr 6.5's (.260 Rem @ 2900 fps).  The 175 gr - 178 gr. match bullets would probably be better for ranges over 600 yds.
 
When loading for the .308W, the small case capacity is a limitation and that is why I like my .30-06 loaded with various 165-168 gr. bullets with 58 gr. of H4350. 
 
I shoot my 1-8 twist .243 at 600 & 1000 yds using 43 gr. of Reloder 19. Trajectories are sort of like the .308 W with 155's except less wind deflection. I am starting to work on a H1000 load with 105's hoping to get more consistency and possibly more velocity.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 18:02
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Look at the Sierra matchking 190 grain boat tail.
You can use quality cases, win or fed primers, no nee to use match stuff, Varget or Re-15 powder.  If Re-15 you will have the odd un-expalinable flyer though.
Velocity around 2550 to 2600 ( find out what your savage likes, faster isn't a requirement )
and expect the sea level to 1000' asl  come up at 1k to be around 35 moa.  Actual will depend on how rough the inside of that factory tube is.
Bullet moves less in the wind than the book shows, much less, as well as not being as squirelly as the 175 matchking at distance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 18:45
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Mike, great to see you "around".  Excellent information, as always...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 19:15
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Might add that the folks at Sierra told me years ago that the reason for the (new at that time) 175 gr. MK bullet that it would remain super sonic at ranges around 1,000 yds when fired from .308's primarily M1A's. An important consideration is the bullet remains supersonic at the range it is used. Despite its ballistic ability a 190 if not driven fast enough may not be super sonic at 1000.
 
The velocity for the old GI loads fired mostly from M1A's with 168's (looked like 168 MK's) was 2550 fps and apparently this was close to be less than super sonic at 1000.
 
For me, my opinions are sometimes contrary and controversial, I prefer to go no heavier than 175's in the .308 and leave the 190's to the .30-06 with H4350.
 
Also I heard that the U.S. DOD at one time had a contract for huge amounts of Re15 but don't know if this is true.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 19:30
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DoD contract doesn't mean it's the best or most suitable... just "adequate"...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 19:46
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I run 175's in my M-21 at 2500 fps ( sierra accuracy load is 2485 pfs )  and they run quite well at 1K.
Better in fact than I'd admit on the internet  :)
 
Also have run 190's in the bolt gun at 2450 with pretty fair results at distance.
 
I can't explain the Re-15 thing,  but have experienced it on NRA ranges; all the flags are pointing same direction and the bullet goes way out into the wind, or goes way high or way low.  And this is from weighed charges.  No idea on why; guess that's why it's called shooting and not hitting.
 
BTW, DOD accuracy for the 118 load is only 10 shots into a 10 wide by 14 tall area at 600 meters.
Not all that impressive, and having shot a metric ton of the stuff, that's about all it will do most days.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 20:44
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I'm more a 223 person, but my brother loves his 10FP in 308.  He shoots the 175 SMK over W-748 to 1200 yards.  Rings that gong with rather annoying regularity... :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2012 at 20:54
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I'll be the odd guy here.
I'm using Win. cases, Fed 210M primers, 43.0 gr.s of Win 748, and 175gr SMK, in a Savage FP 10 with a Bell and Carlson stock.
Here's a 200yd group I shot about a month ago with this load. 20 rounds as fast as I could hit. Oh, and they were pulled military 175gr SMKs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/20/2012 at 01:39
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During the great component shortage a few years ago when I could not buy Varget I used IMR 4320 with great success in both .308 w 155's & 168's and the .30-06 w 150's. The short IMR 4320 powder grains measured well thru my powder measure without weighing and velocities were slightly higher with a grain or two more than Varget.
 
I have not bought any Re15 for many years because I get better results with Varget.  Except for 165 gr. hunting bullets used in the .30-06, I use 155's for most of my shooting 600 yds and under and recently bought some 175 gr. Barnes Match Burners that I plan to use in the .308 w Varget for longer ranges. 
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