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BDC or Turrets for a .223 Rem Bolt Action

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Poll Question: BDC or Turrets for a .223 Rem Bolt Action
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 08:09
Scrumbag View Drop Down
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Hello folks,

 

I’m considering updating the scope on my  .223 CZ527 (22” barrel, 1:9 twist)

 

I’ve currently got on it a 3-9x36 with a classic German number 4 reticle.

 

I could do with:

 

a)      A bit more mag – maybe 12 or 15 x would be nice

b)      A bit more light gathering

c)       Turrets or a BCD for longer range target work or varminting

 

So, would welcome your thoughts on a turret scope or one of the BDC rets set up for .223

 

Ammo choices:

FMJ: 55gr Prvi or or  63gr GGG

Hunting: 56gr Geco Ballistic Tip, 55gr Federal Soft Point, 55 grain Prvi soft point and possibly 62gr Federal Soft Point

 

So, let me know your thoughts folks and recommendations for a scope!

 

ATB,

 

Scrummy

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 08:58
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Scrummy,

I go through this every time I purchase a scope.  I like some of the BDC reticles like the Z-800 or Leupold's varmint reticle, but always circle back to turrets with mil-dot/mil-hash reticle.

BDC are nice but lines never quite line up for me and it is just as easy for me to hold the correct number of mils or dial in the adjustments.

SWFA 3-15x would be a good choice, but unfortunately SWFA doesn't ship outside the US.

If you prefer BDC reticle, I like the older Zeiss Conquest with the Z-600 or 800 reticles.  Cheaper option if the Pride Fowler 3-12x with their rapid reticle.

What kind of budget do you have in mind?

Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 09:42
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BDCs are never perfect, so you can add a significant component of imprecision to your precision shooting, or you can use a reticle that is exact, or spin turrets.

I've run BDCs and have now moved away from them entirely.  Look for a christmas tree reticle with mil or moa markings and you thank me later.

Regardless of what you get, you have to determine drop with your gun, your ammo, you scope, and you; so you will be spending time on the range before you know much about your setup.  With a BDC, you will get to see exactly how and where it is off, with a christmas tree reticle, once you have the drop, you'r done.

All that said, BDCs are relatively fast (when paired with a range finder) and accurate enough for the average shooter (who cares very little about precision and more about hitting something.)

Opinions vary.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 09:51
Scrumbag View Drop Down
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Yes I hear what you are saying with BCDs

I'd rather put money in glass quality than top end mag and probably for most of that shooting say out to 300yds a hit will be a hit.

like the 3-15 or 4.5-14 idea as probably enough for most sensible purposes.

How "imperfect" .223 Rem BDC reticles? Nigh on impossible to find a load close enough or can make it work for rabbit sized game?

KR,

Scrummy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 11:04
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Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

How "imperfect" .223 Rem BDC reticles? Nigh on impossible to find a load close enough or can make it work for rabbit sized game?

Some of those reticles are very well done, and can work for rabbit sized game within 300+ yds.  The challenge is that you'll find the reticle will only be calibrated for your ballistics at one magnification setting, and that magnification setting changes with atmospherics conditions, bullet, load, etc...  (As an example, if you get a 4-16 scope with a BDC reticle and run the software,  it may be calibrated for the ballistics of a 40-gr bullet when the scope is set at a magnification of 14.2, while a 50-gr bullet will require the scope be set at 12.5x, and a 60-gr bullet may require that it be set at 10.3x.  In order to use the scope to it's accuracy potential, you have to verify the mag ring reads accurately (and likely re-mark it) and be diligent about setting the magnification exactly for the conditions and particular load you're shooting. 

I prefer a simple Mil or MOA based Christmas tree reticle that is accurate at a single established power (usually max magnification) -- less to screw up on the part of the user.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2016 at 11:37
Scrumbag View Drop Down
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Hi Maverick,

Any you'd recommend?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 14:33
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Had a 4/14/44 Zeiss conquest on my Kimber 223 I could get all the hash marks to line up with in 4 or 5 yards except the 300 yard it was off 25 yards but the 4.5.6.7 were fairly close .

I would take a turnt with 1/4 moa anyway over the BDC if precise accuracy is what your looking for .
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 15:27
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Kenton Industries will custom engrave a turret for your specific load.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 17:57
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Man it's a long road never ending what good is a custom turnt if your shooting up hill down hill a storm is coming your at 8900 hundred feet and your turnt is for 4009. Oh ya the g7 be 2 then your set
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 18:14
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I like BDC scopes.  However, I've never found one that "does all the work"… which is what it seems many want.  BDC scopes require some effort to understand how they perform with your ammo and conditions.  Since "ballistics" are highly dependent upon atmospheric conditions, it just makes sense that BDC scopes are as well.  SHOOT, build the tables, understand your scope and its performance under multiple sets of conditions… it is almost no difference than "Kentucky windage".  As a matter of fact, it is just like "Kentucky windage"… the scope is just a "force multiplier".  

Requires shooting, recording results, shooting some more… understanding advantages and limitations…

WORK.

NOT EASY.

WORTHWHILE.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2016 at 21:49
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Well said kick boxer ive been shooting bdc turents for two years and it has been a learning experince for sure .

The biggist problem i run into is the wind i can gues it playall the games with it but i have yet to conquer it to a science there is no pushinga button and dailing a knob for mother nature for sure but it sure is fun trying .
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2016 at 05:51
Scrumbag View Drop Down
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Yes I think with either turrets or a BDC ret it will take some time to set up and use of a range for gathering actual data on gun, loads and scope...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2016 at 10:57
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Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Hi Maverick,

Any you'd recommend?

It's personal preference, but I like Leica's IBS reticle in their ER and ERi line of SFP scopes, and if I were hunting with an FFP scope, would look for something like the G2H reticle in Bushnell's LRHS scopes.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2016 at 17:38
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Folks, my Dad just picked up a 3-9x50 Minox that looked great the other evening.

Was wondering what people thought of the Minox ZV3 4.5-14x44?

Minox seems to do good glass and is attractively priced for some more magnification.

Also, for the BDC 400 anyone know what the subtensions are?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2016 at 00:06
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If you download strlork pro it will have most of what your looking for on it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2016 at 11:10
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Most BDC reticles are only valid when the magnification is set at the highest power, whereas an adjustable turret can be used at any magnification.< ="text/" ="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/54adfb7//helpers/preHelper.js">
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2016 at 21:41
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You are correct but they dont need to be on the highest magnification . my 4/44/44 Zeiss works best on 7 power but to me that is part ofthe trueing of the scope .
You can do alot of things with the magnification settings for sure .
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