OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Tactical Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - BDC or Dial
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

BDC or Dial

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
EAGLE View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: August/08/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EAGLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: BDC or Dial
    Posted: November/23/2011 at 20:56
Do any of the BDC type reticles work as well as dialing in ?
 
I see a lot more BDC type reticles now and was wondering how these are working out for hunting ?
 
Eagle
 
 
Back to Top
sscoyote View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: October/05/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sscoyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2011 at 21:45

The only time i dial is for prairie dogs. Everything else is reticle for me to about 600 yds. or so. Interpolating between reticle stadia points to a level of .125 or .25 SMOA accuracy is probably not going to happen, but you'll get close, and u don't need that kind of accuracy anyway. Got a buddy that has shot about 7 coyotes beyond 400 yds. the last 2 seasons and he used the Varmint Hunter reticle in his 6.5-20x Leupold to make 6 of those kills--all 1st shots to 650 yds.

 
Here's one of my coyote rigs this year--Savage Striker 22-250/60 gr. JLK Low Drag, Nikon 2.5-8x BDC reticle, and a breakdown of my system of application--
 
425 yds.--
 
 
 
Range sticker (placed in a Butler Creek scope cap cover) is in upper right quadrant.


Edited by sscoyote - November/23/2011 at 21:47
Steve
Back to Top
EAGLE View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: August/08/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EAGLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2011 at 21:57

I assume you're using the "Spot on" program on Nikon's site ?

I've read where some say it works and others say it doesn't so I guess the best thing to do is try it myself.

 
Any recommedations on which system to try:
 
Vortex
 
Nikon
 
Bushnell
 
Etc?
 
Eagle
Back to Top
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4835
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2011 at 22:19
A BDC reticle will work well for certain loads but is not as versatile as a uniformly subtensioned reticle and target turrets, e.g. a mil reticle/mil turret scope. The latter can - with a ballistics calculator or range-derived drop table - be accurate with any load. A number of scopes have fast-turn turrets, e.g. 5-10 or mils per turn. I dial elevation for everything with my 5 and 6 mil/turn scopes, but hold for wind/movement.
Reaction time is a factor...
Back to Top
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3997
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2011 at 22:21
Personally, I dial. Looking up to see if the dial is on Zero is easier than to remember on what power which little dot is good on. 
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
Back to Top
sscoyote View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: October/05/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sscoyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2011 at 22:39
Eagle--if u look close at the data above you'll see that that's not from the Spot-On program. I don't think it calcs windage, and i always calc. it with any horizontal stadia i have at my disposal. I also calc. my data in 50-yd. intervals instead of the stadia zeros themselves only. When i'm in the field i don't really care what the stadia zeros actually are unless they happen to fall on a 50-yd. calculation. For my application the stadia are only there to reference interpolation and for calculation purposes.
 
I don't care if the stadia subtensions match even hundred yd. intervals, in fact one of my favorite ballistic reticles is the Rapid Reticle 22 Long Rifle that i used for an AR-15 load--
 
Many think that a "BDC" reticle has to match even hundred-yd. intervals. They don't have to be applied that way.


Edited by sscoyote - November/23/2011 at 22:41
Steve
Back to Top
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 05:57
I used to shoot using the BDC, but have moved on to the dial tactical turrets. I think any system works as well as the amount of trigger time.
 
Dialing does take the guesswork out of aiming between two hash marks. It is more precise to dial.
Back to Top
Claus View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: August/05/2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 744
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 07:07
8shots = Thunbs Up
Savage 93 17.HMR.    Tikka T3 Lite,SS 30-06.    Blaser R8 6,5-55 Beretta Silver Pigeon. Remmie 1100 S.A. +++

Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened
Back to Top
EAGLE View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: August/08/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EAGLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 09:24
Most of my shots have been under 200 yds but wanted to start shooting longer distances up to 500 yds.

Not sure if I will go custom dials because I use different loads.

If my scope is setup for 1/4" per click at 100 yds and 2 click per 50 yds and 4 clicks per 25 yds, What would the adjustment be at 200 yds-500yds ?

Eagle
Back to Top
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 09:36
the most accurate systems use a combination of both. If you have the moa or mil drops for the load your using and already know the moa or mil drop for the hash your going to use, either add or subtract using dial in.  this runs the elevation through less mechanical range with less error due to mechanical turning. this is the method recommended by NF
I love little league baseball-- it keeps the kids out of the house
Yogi Bera

Back to Top
Claus View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: August/05/2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 744
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 09:39
It depends of several things. Your caliber - your load - your bulletweight - your bulletspeed.
I am not very good at those calculations, so i take it to the field and test it the hard way. You have to do that sooner or later anyway.
My 4,5 14x50 Mark 4 Leupold has 1/4 moa. I shoot a 6,5x55 with a 9,1 gram bullet.
I zero it at 100 meters. 
At 150 mtr i don't touch it. 
At 200 mtr i click it 8 clicks. 
At 300 meters i click it 28 clicks
Savage 93 17.HMR.    Tikka T3 Lite,SS 30-06.    Blaser R8 6,5-55 Beretta Silver Pigeon. Remmie 1100 S.A. +++

Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened
Back to Top
EAGLE View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: August/08/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EAGLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 10:05
I'm going to the range later this week and wanted to get some idea. I was thinking 1/2" per click at 200, 3/4" at per click 300 & 1" per click at 400 for a Remmy 700 SPS Varmint in .308 w/ 26" barrel.

I don't hand load so I was going to try different weights (150-168) in HRDY SST, Win Silver tips, etc and use the new chronograph I just bought.

Eagle
Back to Top
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4835
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 10:20
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

the most accurate systems use a combination of both. If you have the moa or mil drops for the load your using and already know the moa or mil drop for the hash your going to use, either add or subtract using dial in.  this runs the elevation through less mechanical range with less error due to mechanical turning. this is the method recommended by NF

I'm not disputing that NF may recommend this, but it seems surprising given that their scope internals are designed to run the full adjustment range and return to zero. IMO, the only scopes worth bothering with are ones you could run through a box test any time you want and depend on to not induce any error.

Just the other day, while boresighting a new Premier, I ran the turret up and down 10 mils, looking at a line where a chimney joins a roof on a house 320 yards away. When I hit 10 mils, the top bar of the reticle (5 mils up from center) was right on the line. When I went back, the bottom bar was right on the line. I wouldn't expect anything else. Of course there are scopes that may do that - like IOR - in a static test but that will not always do so under recoil.
Reaction time is a factor...
Back to Top
EAGLE View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: August/08/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EAGLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 10:29
I'm still in need of a new scope for hunting so any recommendations would be appreciated

Glass has to be as good as the Monarch and/or 4200

Repeatable

Warranty

Max budget $ 800

Eagle
Back to Top
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3997
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 12:04
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P50716.aspx
For the money this would be one of the overall top all time picks. There are also basic mil-dot models on the Sample list for a couple hundred less, but the mil-quad is cool! But either is easy to learn because the reticle matches the turrets. And first focal plane means that wind holds or leads on moving targets are correct no matter what magnification the scope is on.
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
Back to Top
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 14390
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 12:12
Lets see what the BlackFriday SWFA deal is on the Super Snipers.  I know the 5-20x50 will be on sale.

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger
Back to Top
EAGLE View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: August/08/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 332
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EAGLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 16:12

Please keep in mind that I'm a hunter first, but very bad at holdover so I need help in that department.

I can learn the Mil systems. However, I don't have any first hand experience with FFP scopes (only what I've read) and I was always lead to believe that the Mil-Quad and Mil- Mil in FFP would cover up allot of the target at higher magnifications.

With that being said, good hunting scope & range scope combo ?
 
Eagle
Back to Top
sscoyote View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: October/05/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sscoyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 16:31
I like the 4.5-14x VX-III with Varmint Hunter reticle. This is what i apply on another Savage Striker 243 WSSM/117 DTAC combination, and it works great. I have a std. tgt. turret for elevation and std. low profile for windage. I really like the system as u can apply reticle for quick long-range applications for hunting or dial when time allows. Another under-appreciated aspect of that reticle is the three 1.77 MOA windage units right along the reticle's horizontal axis (the reason i don't hve a windage tgt. turret).
 
My buddy mentioned above has this reticle in his 6.5-20 VX, and after this past coyote season he's changing all his Leupolds to this reticle for hunting apps. Had he been dialing all of his long-range shots he probably would not have had the opportunities he had for more than half of the LR furbearers he took last 2 seasons...and this guy is a died-in-the-wool dialer.
Steve
Back to Top
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3997
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2011 at 19:05
Eagle, the thing you have to remember with a ffp scope is the cross-hairs never change size in relation to the target, no matter what mag. the scope is on... It is on a regular old sfp scope that the target is more obscured by the cross-hairs, but at lower power, because the scopes are set-up to be "correct" at only one mag. and it is usually the highest.
 On a ffp scope a mil is a mil whether on 3x or 9x. Where as on a sfp scope set to be correct at 9x, one mil would be 1/3 mil on 3x.
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
Back to Top
atomiclab View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: November/17/2011
Location: Tx
Status: Offline
Points: 68
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atomiclab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 23:05
billyburl,  I have often wondered why the hew hot thing is the ffp scopes.  That makes sense though.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.162 seconds.