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Barnes vs anything

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 07:40
CowboyBill View Drop Down
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I have been away for a while, I was over in the Gulf region supporting the troops. I'm back now, in Nashville for the time being. I was at Bill's (Cyborg) for the weekend, and he and his son are great, as I knew he was. We did quite a bit of shooting, guitar playing, and even worked on the accuracy problems I was having with the Barnes Bullets. He has a real sweet setup for load development. He clamps the rifle in a spring loaded slide, which does a fantastic job.
The problem I'm having is a common one according to all I've read here and a few other places.
 
Bill uses the Nosler, and Sierra brands, and he has tried the Barnes, as a matter of fact, he has quite a few boxes laying around in the 30 caliber, and gave them to me.
 
Bill is an accuracy fanatic. He says there are too many outside variables to be concerned with, so he prefers to have the bullets get as close to hitting the same hole as he possibly can. Just a smidgen of operator err, combined with the slight off of a fly away can mean a complete miss, or as he put it "even worse, a wounded animal, and in todays world with the activists, doing all they can to purge us of our hunting rights, that just ain't gonna sit well." I've considered this, and have come to the conclusion that he may have a valid point. (Other than the one he puts his hat on) Sorry Bill, I had to say that. LOL
 
I have started shooting the Noslers, and in three hours of work, we had my Remmy shooting wonderfully accurate. My confidence in longer shots is greatly improved now, because now I know what my combination of Rifle, and load can do. That leaves me with making improvements in my shooting abilities.
 
I'm saying this just to start a friendly exchange of thoughts, and ideas. I believe that "WE" are all adults and friends here, and can exchange thoughts without getting emotional. I would hate to see this thread get locked down due to immaturity.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 08:32
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Thanks Brother, now I hate to say I told you so, BUT I TOLD YOU SO!!!!! Yep,%20Thought%20So I have to say that's a damned fine Remmy you have there, I'd almost trade one of my Savages for it, ALMOST. You just remember what we did to work up those loads, and then you can experiment with the Sierra's and other BONDED BULLETS. The whole monolithic movement is the anti's working towards cost prohibitive gun ownership, next there will be someting about the copper, or the powder, just you wait and see. I'll not buy into the HYPE.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 08:52
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Cowboybill,

Welcome back bud,

Thanks for what you are doing with the troops. Lord know we need more people like us to show our support openly for them.

 

Barns bullet. I think they are way way over rated. I have tried 200 rounds so far and I can't get my grouping under 2inches at 100yards. I can get nosler AB to the berries, but I have found another bullet that my rifle likes even better. I traded for some 210gr Berger VLD's so I loaded 10 up with some 215 primers and 79gr of h1000.off to the range. I sat down with my old trusted remmy 300WIN MAG and slowly fired one off. Dead poi. I said to myself. self there is now way I got that lucky on the first shot. I fired the second shot nothing changed. I thought i missed the target. So I had some one watch the target and he said the hole is getting a tad bigger with every shot.  I know most people don't thing a match grade bullet will work for hunting but I have seen them in Acton and they are top notch. I will agree they do damage a little bit more that a AB but not much plus if a shot out past 300 or 400 yards shows itself then I feel 100% better about taking it.

 

 

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 08:59
cyborg View Drop Down
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You told me you were gonna give them a try. I'm absolutely amazed you got them loaded that well the first try!!!!!! That's the same as how you were loading the Noslers isn't it? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 09:03
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Berger VLD's? I might have to try those. Thanks Bigdaddy. I understand you live fairly close to Bill. Next time I'm down there, I'll have to hook up with ya. We three can tear up a range somewhere.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 09:04
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With the nosler I was going with H4831SC powder with the VDL I went with H1000. I thought I would give the H1000 a try since it is a widely used powder in the 300's. My rifle really like the H1000 with the 200+gr bullets, but the H4831sc loves the 168gr and under. I bought a pro crony so I'm hoping this weekend I can run the numbers to see how my spread is going to work out.

I know barns has a great fallowing but I would have a better chance of getting them to group better by shooting them thru a sling shoot.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 09:09
cyborg View Drop Down
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Oh that's right, I was mainly talking about the primer and the seating depth. I'm curious because I might try them and I'd hate to go monkeying around too much with my set up. Not a big deal, but if they are shooting that well for you and you're set up is roughly the same for them as the AB then that gives me a good point of reference. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 09:10
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Originally posted by CowboyBill CowboyBill wrote:

Berger VLD's? I might have to try those. Thanks Bigdaddy. I understand you live fairly close to Bill. Next time I'm down there, I'll have to hook up with ya. We three can tear up a range somewhere.
 
Sounds good,But you must know up front the new guy must buy lunch & beer.
 
I was skeptical of the Bergers but I was amazed how well they shoot for me.
 
I'll also let you use the trim mate.Thats a time saver big time.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 09:14
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Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

Oh that's right, I was mainly talking about the primer and the seating depth. I'm curious because I might try them and I'd hate to go monkeying around too much with my set up. Not a big deal, but if they are shooting that well for you and you're set up is roughly the same for them as the AB then that gives me a good point of reference. 
 
I was in question about where i read they need to be touching the lands and such si I wouldn't buy any. I came across someone wanting to try the nosler so we swaped 50 for 50. I loaded them to my mag length and they did great. I think loading them to touch the lands is not a bullet thing but a rifle thing.
I'll bring you a few to try.i just bought a few boxes of 168's and 210's since I like tham so well.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 09:15
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Oh man, between you and Bill, lunch and beer will cost a bloody fortune, I haven't written that many songs yet! I like the sound of that though. I love to have a good time. By the way, Travis says hello, and he'll need some smith work soon.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 09:22
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That sounds real good brother, I look forward to it.
 
CB you talking about Tritt? He still shooting? We should get him down on the range too, He lives near BD. You'll have to buy the beer and food though CB, oh and pay for the gas too....


Edited by cyborg - June/03/2008 at 09:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 09:24
CowboyBill View Drop Down
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Yeah, BD Travis lives near you? That man can eat, this is getting more expensive with every post. I'll see what I can do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 10:06
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Originally posted by CowboyBill CowboyBill wrote:

Yeah, BD Travis lives near you? That man can eat, this is getting more expensive with every post. I'll see what I can do.
 
yeah his place isn't far from me at all.
 
Bring your wallet CB.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 10:20
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He's the one with all the money, maybe he should pay. Big%20Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 10:25
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Yeah, Good luck with that CB. You let us know how that talk goes....LOL      Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2008 at 17:30
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CB, which Barnes bullet were you experimenting with?  I never had much luck getting the older X bullet and XLC to shoot in a few of my rifles, but I've gotten consistently excellent accuracy with TSX and MRX, in fact, usually as good or better than the high BC plastic tipped boattail bullets having good accuracy reputations.
 
For my rifles, the TSX & MRX have given me the best accuracy when seated between 0.030" - 0.050" off the lands, using suitable powders that have proven to provide good accuracy in the cartridge I'm loading for.  So far, I've used them in my .243, .25-06, 7mm-08, .308, 7 RM, and .300 Win Mag, all with at least acceptable accuracy.  In my 7-08, .308, 7 mag and .300 mag, I've worked up loads that all hovered around 1MOA with either TSXs or MRXs.  My 7 mag especially loves the 150 gr. TSX.  I've found that by dropping down one step in bullet weight (for example, 150's instead of the 160's I normally shoot in my 7 mag), I get good results because without the lead, they are usually a little long for a given weight.
 
Just keep in mind that no bullet of any design will always shoot well out of all rifles, so just because something works well in my rifle doesn't mean it will in yours.  Ultimately, use what works, provided the bullet is a sensible design for the animal you're hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2008 at 07:10
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CB is back out on the road again guys, that cat stays busy. I can tell you that the work he and I were doing was the seating depth, and the best depth for his 300 Rem RUM was .035 the groups were consistently 2.5 inches at 100 yards with no operator err involved. That would be the TSX 165 grn BT.
That was the best grouping that we could get, and that was the best depth for seating we could get. It was interesting that the depth for the Nosler AB was the same in every aspect, load wise and the Noslers were ragging the hole.
 
Ted, I appreciate you giving CB the opportunity to elaborate, you and I have talked about this in length adnauseum, you are gracious to ask when you already knew the answers.
CB asked me to tell you and BigDaddy thanks for all the help. He will probably be back sometime Friday, or maybe get the chance late in the evening to catch up on what's happening, I guess he doesn't get to play much. POOR BASTARD LOL


Edited by cyborg - June/04/2008 at 07:41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2008 at 08:20
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Hey folks, I was supposed to be gone for a couple of days, I'm just touching base here. Not sure how much "Playtime" I'll get this next couple of weeks. Sorry Bill, I didn't think I'd get the chance to be in today, but here I am for a few minutes anyways.
Ted, and Brandon, THANKS for all of your help. Bill thanks for asking the others for the help, for me. You guys ROCK!
I want and expect accuracy to the Nth degree when I spend the time and money to hand load, Money I have plenty of, TIME I DO NOT. Mine is very valuable. Bill understands this, as does Bigdaddy, and RifleDude. These guys have invested plenty of their time trying to get this " preferred combination" to work for me, it just doesn't deliver to my expectations. I can buy factory ammo that will do as much as this, and not have to fool with the time involved. "RTFI"? I have more times than I care to mention, you can be happy with the results you get, good for you. I'm not happy with the results I get, that's my right to look else where for those results, the three guys I mentioned have alot of combined experience, and nothing was giving me the results I expect with regards to the Barnes TSX. No amount of reading, or cd watching is going to change the facts. I'm glad you get the results you want, I'm glad Ted does too. There was another fella that was using the TSX (Larry Root) and they were working great for him, I was hoping he'd give me some help with this, but he was vacationing in Florida, and I have since moved back to Nashville. It just isn't going to work for me. atleast not in this rifle. My Weatherby is a different story though, they do fine in that one, I just hate having a whole buttload of different bullets for the three different .30 calibres that I have. I look at the amount of space that Bill has for his and it makes my eyes water. I want simplicity. I've ranted enough now and feel alot better. Thanks guys.


Edited by cyborg - August/28/2008 at 15:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2008 at 08:24
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I guess some of us have to work and it might as well be CB hahaha after all he is buying …….

 

Listing to him talk about all the trials you and him and I have went thru with the barns to actually get them to hit paper sounds like the same old story I have heard from many places. I'm not knocking barns but I have tried them in 2 different rifles and I can't get anything better than a 4 inch group. So that and with all the stories of the copper pedals breaking off and the bullet pin holing I'm not sure I would trust them on big game.

 

I guess I have had great success with AB's, SST and now with the Berger VLD's I just can't bring myself to buy or recommend them to anyone.

 

After I think about it I did mail CB a video of barns bullets and Berger bullets and I guess I’m partly to blame for him buying them. I guess tell him I’ll give him some VLD’s as a token of my apologies. He never did say he watched them though.

 
 spelling

 



Edited by Bigdaddy0381 - June/04/2008 at 08:40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2008 at 11:43
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I'm no expert here but makes me wonder if some rifling twist rates/barrel combinations are more forgiving of slight variances in centre of mass for different bullet types once the bullet exits the muzzle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2008 at 12:31
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Brandon, You care to elaborate on the work you did to CB's Remmy, you put the Hart, Match Grade Barrel on it. I can say with almost complete certainty IT AINT THE BARREL. Like I said the Noslers are ragging a single hole.
 
Now I will say that it could be a bad batch of TSX's, that's just as, or even more likely the possibility, as the barrel, or bore. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2008 at 18:48
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Hey guys, keep in mind that unless the recipient of the rifle has an FFL, it's illegal to box up a rifle and send it through any carrier to another individual.  Just wanted to get that bit of housekeeping out of the way.
 
CB, some rifles just don't shoot well with some bullets.  For example, one of my varmint rifles which is EXTREMELY accurate (Cooper M21 in .223) doesn't shoot 50 grain SBK bullets worth a crap, yet one of my shooting buddies has the exact same, identical rifle in the same caliber, and his loves them.  Keep in mind that these two rifles are identical and both VERY accurate with loads they like.  I can take his ammo, with which his rifle shoots groups you can cover with a dime, and my rifle won't keep them within an inch.  SBK's have an excellent reputation for being superbly accurate.  What's really odd is the fact that with the same powder charge and COAL, my rifle shoots similar 1 ragged hole groups with the 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, which seems to be dimensionally identical to the 50 gr. SBK.
 
I can't account for why you had such poor accuracy results with the TSX, given the excellent accuracy I've had with this bullet in my rifles.  Some things just defy logic, and you have to go with what works.  There's a lot of voodoo involved with rifle accuracy.  Let your rifle tell you what it likes and go with that, while still choosing a bullet design that's well-suited for the size game you're hunting.  There are several other very good controlled expansion bullets available.
 
Since you say the AB shoots well for you, if you want a premium, controlled expansion bullet that's tougher than the AB, you might give either the new Win XP3, Nosler E-Tip, or the new Tipped Trophy Bonded bullets a try.  They all feature a similar streamlined high-BC, long ogive, tipped boattail profile of the AB with similar bearing length.  The E-Tip is essentially just like the TTSX without the o.d. grooves. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2008 at 23:07
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wow you guy's shore sound lack you no a bunch bout bullets i always use the remminton 150 gran core locks in the green and yellow box in my 3006 an i never had a problem killing deers do you guy's thank i should switch to one of these bullets lack the barns i dont relode but i mite try if it wood be better an i wood get more accracy what do you guy's thank an how much dose a reloding set cost?
 
thank's!
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You're not reloading MH? You can spend as much or almost as little as you want look around for deals brother. There are several here that will be happy to help you through the learning curve. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2008 at 07:06
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MH, first, the ol' green box factory Core-Lokts are just fine on deer.  If you were going after heavier stuff, I would prefer something with stouter construction.  There are several excellent bullets available for the tougher critters, if you hunt anything larger than deer.
 
If you're interested in handloading, I would probably start out with one of the name brand kits that include most of what you need, then build from there.  Many here can help you in selecting the rest of your components as you get started.
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