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Bad shooting 10/22

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 16:15
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 16:18
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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sorry about the large picture. I've been fighting this thing lately and can't figure out where to turn next. The shots in the picture are from 50 yards, and shot from a rest. I really don't believe this is shooter error. I tried cleaning it, but to no avail. Any suggestions on how to tighten up the groups, or do I just have a bad shooter?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 16:22
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Have you tried different ammo?  I chronoed some once and I was getting over a 150 fps extreme spread over 30 rounds.  I think it was remington golden bullet.  Just cheapo stuff, but is still suprised me it was that bad.  My groups were about like yours, I bought some more expensive stuff that was subsonic and it shot much better. 

If you shoot ammo that is super sonic coming out of the tube, it is usually just barely over the sound barrier so it does not have to do very far to return to sub sonic speeds at that point it is like a boat that is plaining on the water and suddenly stops palining and drops into the water.  A bullet will do a similar thing when it goes subsonic, and with a .22 it does not have to be very far for that to happen.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 16:26
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I've shot the cheap federal bulk ammo and some winchester T-22 target and get the same result. I have been thinking about shooting some CCI stingers through it. I think they should stay supersonic longer. This still appeared to me to be very bad groups for only 50 yards. I don't ever remember this thing shooting this badly. I was thinking about tightening or loosening the barrel band, and see if that makes a difference. I have a cheap simmons scope on it now. That will be the next thing to go.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 16:30
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I would try some subsonic ammo.  From my research that is what target shooters use and it is much more consistent.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 16:35
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I will have to try that. I still think that a group of almost 4" is pretty extreme at 50 yards. I used to shoot co2 cartridges at 100, and while not hit them every shot, I could hit them pretty consistantly.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 16:50
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Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

I've shot the cheap federal bulk ammo and some winchester T-22 target and get the same result. I have been thinking about shooting some CCI stingers through it. I think they should stay supersonic longer. This still appeared to me to be very bad groups for only 50 yards. I don't ever remember this thing shooting this badly. I was thinking about tightening or loosening the barrel band, and see if that makes a difference. I have a cheap simmons scope on it now. That will be the next thing to go.
..................I presume you have checked the bases and rings for tightness??? No reticle problems?.........Try different ammo!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 17:12
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Subsonic ammo will not cycle my 10/22. I have tried several different brands, just does not work. I have heard of some that does, but have not found any.
.22 ammo is still relatively cheap. Get several different kinds/weights and try it out. My 10/22 loves the 40gr Remington. Does not like any other weight.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 17:15
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Tango two niner,  you a lefty?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 18:08
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Trigger 29...
First of all, if you exhaust everything with the ammo, I would ditch the barrel band altogether and bed the first couple inches of barrel forward of the barrel clamp.  If that doesn't work, I would recrown the barrel and take the bolt out and surface grind the headspace depth (distance between bolt face that contacts the barrel shank and the bolt face recess that contains the case rim) to 0.0425".  If you don't have the equipment to do this properly, there are gunsmiths who specialize in 10/22 work who will do this for you for a reasonable price.  This makes your firing pin strikes more consistent because there is no excess rim space when the round is chambered.  Also, the stock 10/22 chamber is usually too deep, so you can try having the breech face cut back a little and maybe even have the chamber recut in the process.  Depending on how much $ you're willing to spend on this rifle, if nothing else works, I would replace the factory barrel with an aftermarket barrel with Bentz chamber.  You can get a relatively inexpensive aftermarket barrel from Green Mountain, and the Volquartsen and Shilen barrels are even better (but more expensive).  I have also tried various different bedding techniques on the 10/22 with varied success, so if those measures don't work, send me a PM and I can go into further detail.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 18:14
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Clean the rifle as best you can.  Then take five rounds of T-22 and roll the bullet only in something like crest toothpaste and let the round dry.  Then fire the rounds cleaning in betweeen. See if that improves it any.  Repeat once, but no more than twice if no improvement.  Stick to using jacketed bullets for awhile.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 19:04
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Both of my 10/22's like the Winchester Super X Power Point. Both are consistantly under 2" @ 50 yards. I have shot all X's with my 1976 Bicentennial 10/22 on several occasions with the same ammo. It is deadly on coons out to 50 yards. I would try them if you haven't already.
The Remington sub-sonics cycle in both of mine. They will not shoot with the Super X's, though.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 19:44
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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2" at 50 yards? maybe i'm expecting too much of this rifle. I was hoping for 1" at 50. I may just ditch the 10/22 altogether and keep shooting the .17 HMR. That thing will put five shots in about 3/8" at 100 on a calm day. I like the idea of a .22 for the cheap ammo, but it is frustrating to shoot, when they don't hit what you are aiming for.  I think I would rather get rid of the 22 and buy more 17 ammo, then spend countless dollars on accurizing my 10/22.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 19:47
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The 2" is for both of them. The 1976 model shoots better all the time. If I put it outside the X it is usually my fault with the stock trigger.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 20:59
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i should take my old 1970's version 10/22 out and see how i can do at 50yds with open sights to see how poor or well mine does, intresting stuff, the 10/22 has more aftermarket parts than a honda civic, so im sure if you have the action you can turn it into almost anything you want.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2008 at 23:29
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If the rifle has shot better in the past then think back and try to recall if you ever shot any straight lead ammo. Also check the muzzle for damage or lead fouling. I've seen more than one good shooting 22 go south after a box of lead head ammo. If you think that lead fouling may be the problem find a lead solvent to help get it out and try to push everything out the muzzle. Don't use any wire brushes, do most of your work with plastic and swabs to avoid wrecking the barrel. If you know you've never fired soft lead in it then make sure there isn't any muzzle issues and go with Rifle Dudes g-smith suggestions or buy an after market target barrel and enjoy your 22 again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2008 at 00:10
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Did I miss it or have you checked the V block. If it is loose on a 10-22 it will create havoc on accuracy.  The scope mounts on the receiver, the barrel is mainly held in place by the V block If it is loose the barrel may not keep alignment with the receiver. Another improvement would be the cantilever scope mount that is attached to the barrel instead of the receiver. Then the scope held more in line with the barrel. The simplicity in the construction of the 10-22 is its biggest asset and also its worst flaw. For an accurate 22 RF go with a bolt action. The Savage Model MARK II-BTVS -- with AccuTrigger Is a very nice shooter. If they would only make it left handed.



Edited by 3_tens - September/16/2008 at 00:12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2008 at 02:15
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Cut your losses and buy/get an accurate rifle. I have walked that road of trying to turn an inaccurate rifle around. prepare to spend $$$$ and it never ends. Then this then that. In the end you have bought a new rifle piece by piece.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 01:13
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well, I tried some hyper velocity 36 grain 1500 fps Remington ammo today, and also some CCI subsonics. I seemed to tighten the groups a little with both, but still had fliers with both, and they seem to always string to the right. The T-22 winchesters were in fact lead, and uncoated. I shot these when it was shooting pretty well, hoping they would shoot even better. Maybe I need a good lead solvent. I was hoping my copper solvent would also take the soft lead out, but apparently not. I will try it as a last resort. Oh and roger steelbenz, affirmative on the lefty. Tango two niner out. I'm oscar mike. Thanks all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 04:04
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Something is badly wrong here.  The 10/22 is an outstanding rifle.    You should easily get under 2 inches at 50 yards with a factory barrel.  An "almost 4 inch" group is terrible.  Did you buy this new, or used (and possibly abused)?  Is the barrel rusted out?
 
Some ammo brands are obviously better than others.  A .22 barrel usually doesn't need much cleaning.
 
Let a friend who is a good shooter give it a try.  Sometimes, the rifle and the shooter just aren't a good matchup.
 
Check the scope (and scope mounts).  Try another scope!
 
Take off the stock and be sure the screws holding the V-block and barrel are tight.  (Be careful not to strip them!)  Make sure the barrel isn't loose and wobbly in the receiver.  (If it is, ditch the rifle.  It's hopeless.)
 
Then put it back together without the barrel band, and try it.  (Don't be surprised if it shoots pretty much the same both with and without the barrel band.)
 
If you have a bad barrel, it's a good idea to replace it with a Bentz-chambered barrel (with stainless steel liner) as RifleDude suggested.  I wouldn't screw around with the original barrel or bedding.  It's easier and more reliable to get a new barrel and/or stock, plus you will improve your accuracy significantly in the process.  If you go for a new stock, the Hogue is my pick.  (The current Butler Creek stock wouldn't accept my very old 10/22's receiver.)
 
I refitted my own 10/22 with a lightweight Butler Creek barrel and a Volquartsen trigger  group.  It shoots 1/2" groups at 50 yards with Eley Tenex, even using a cheap 4X Bushnell scope.  A lot of bolt action .22's won't do this!
 
It's a great rifle design.  I hope you can get yours working to your satisfaction. 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 20:00
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I'm getting into this post kinda late, but I can say a standard 10/22 will do a 1/2" at 50 yards. I use Federal Gold Medal Match ammo almost exclusively in mine. Not uncommon to bust turtle heads out to 75 yards, and zero in on their shells at 100yds  in the pond also.
Derek
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 20:07
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I don't use match ammo, just plain ole Remington Thunderbolt 40gr, but .5in at 50yds is pretty easy. It has a LOT of rounds through it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2008 at 04:38
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I haven't yet seen a 10/22 that could do ½" at 50 yards. I recently purchased one and was VERY disappointed with the accuracy, also it seems that choosing a right ammo really makes difference. (CCI standard made something like 6" groups at 25 yards Whacko). Lapua seems to work well and makes 1.5-2 MOA groups at 25 yards, but I wouldn't go hunting with it. Many of my friends have a 10/22 and general opinion seems to be that you could expect something like ~2MOA groups with out of the box 10/22. There are exceptions of course, but getting a new barrel seems to be only choice for me..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2008 at 10:17
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We have several 10/22's bought 20 or 30 years ago.  With most factory ammo (not the ultra-high-velocity stuff), they fired groups of about 3/4 inch or less 25 yards.
 
I've also read a lot of 10/22 reviews in gun magazines over the years.  This seems to be pretty typical for factory barrels.
 
On the other hand, some rifles just come out of the factory shooting great.  Weatherby's   marketing of selected Vanguards as MOA rifles is a perfect example of this. 
 
The Federal Gold Medal Ultramatch ammo is a fairly recent development, and was designed to be super-accurate.  My personal rifle liked Eley Tenex better, however, when I fired both in comparison tests.  You just have to find out what your particular rifle likes.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/22/2008 at 16:03
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FINALLY, some success at the range. I ended up taking the gun apart again and cleaning it until I couldn't get one speck of anything on a patch. I put another quarter turn on the v-block screws and loosened the action screw about 5 in.-lbs. The best group came with the sub sonics at about 7/8". The hyper velocity rounds still went about 1-1/2 or so, but still an improvement. I am not messing with it anymore for fear of losing what I have. On a positive note for the day I shot probably the best 100 yd. 3 shot group the .17 HMR has put out, and did it in the wind. Pics of both below. (probably huge again, stupid computer)
 
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