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bad bull muzzleloaders

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 09:04
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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took this to a new thread to avoid scope breakage--- couldn't believe what I was reading on the muzzle energy part. for just $3600 you can bet a reworked remy short action that will shoot 80 grs. of 4350 and a 290 gr bullet without a case. after changing the primer device with one that uses a fed. 215 that is hand pressed into place, you now have a single shot that not only doesn't get to use cases, one has to prime it each time.

Does anyone have experience ?? and for you blackpowder fans (I can understand the appeal of the old guns) why would someone want to do this???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 09:06
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easier to clean for one thing, ive seen some write up on those and they seem like bad muthas, nothing like turning your rifle into an accurate smoke pole.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 09:22
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I like the looks of that stainless/laminate #1 action on the web.
There was a thread some time back where a fellow had one of the long range ML's with a thumb hole stock. I remember his ballistics were pretty impressive, also.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 09:37
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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I like new toys too-- but $3600 to play with something that is done and better by other rifles. ????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 09:40
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yeah it sorta like buying one of those cadillac escalade pickups, when the chevy silverado does the same thing for a lot less
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 09:52
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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one can get a surgeon 338 LM for 3600 in a mcmillian or AI stock, I don't think a single shot front endder , maybe an old fashioned one with a lot of engraving--
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 10:21
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No No  If I could afford to spend this much money on a gun, I still couldn't justify spending it on a muzzleloader.  For the people who find this appealing, I say more power to them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 10:22
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for people who have that kind of money spend it!! keep the economy going
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 10:48
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The reason ya'll don't understand the need for these guns is because ya'll are analyzing them from a shooter's standpoint and not from a trophy hunter's standpoint.

In most states muzzle loader season is before rifle season.  This rifle gives you a huge advantage in the field because you can hunt before the real season starts, before the pressure forces the monster bucks and bulls to turn nocturnal.
 
Being able to be in the field before anyone else with a rifle like that and doing it legally is a dream come true for many.  These rifles are expensive but easily justified if you are obsessed with record book type animals.
 
All of the advancements we've seen over the last 10 years in muzzleloaders are directly related to the early seasons.  If there were no early muzzleloader season not many people would own a muzzleloader and not many companies would be developing ways to make them shoot like centerfire rifles.
 
I don't know anyone that owns a muzzleloader around here because we don't have an early season.  I would not be surprised if these early seasons go away or if they regulate them in some way to get the season back to what it was supposed to be (primitive).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 10:51
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we dont have an earlier muzzloader season in minnesota either, its actually after the firearms season, you cannot use a scope on a ml either, unless you use it during the firearms season.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 11:06
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Our season in Michigan comes after the general season ends. It is in December and we can use in-lines with optics.
I still use my primative smoke poles. But I shoot a Black Widow recurve and a 21st Century Long Bow, too. That is by choice and choice is good.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 11:09
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Chris,
 
That was my thought exactly - it kinda stretches the definition of a "primitive weapon" a bit, but then so do T/C Encores, Savage 10MLII's, and the like.  The only thing that they have in common with the old "Hawken" rifles is that you load them from the muzzle.  It lets the "purist" have a good rant.  I personally don't have a problem with it.  As an ethical hunter, isn't the "prime directive" to take an animal as cleanly as possible?  When used within the limitations of the person and the firearm, I believe these new generation of muzzleloaders do improve the hunter's ability to take game ethically.  Besides that, I enjoy the opportunity to spend an additional week outdoors - even if I don't harvest a single animal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 11:11
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i dont like that law some of those state have where you can use a single shot 45/70
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 11:24
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In some places, you can not use a highpower. Parts of Iowa are limited to shotgun, or muzzleloader. They aren't specific about what kind of muzzleloader. To extend your range, you can build one of these smokeless muzzleloaders. Richards custom rifles will build you one that will hold moa out to at least 500 yards, and with over 5000 lbs of muzzle energy!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 13:08
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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no I understand the hunter part-- which further stumps me.-- the guns aren't using black powder they are using smokeless 4350 and optics which makes them illegal in idaho, wyo, utah, mont, colo, which require blackpowder and only 1x optics, (some exceptions apply)  so I have to assume that some state are allowing a stretch of the definition of muzzleloading.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 13:36
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i think some consider it so as long as it it loaded from the muzzle, smokeless or black powder. mn is the same way with optics 1x and thats it, one nice thing here though is the black powder season is longer than the rifle season, and the deer move around more after the rifle season, especially with the snow.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 13:46
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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i'm guessing that texas and some other places that have hunting ranches may being seeing some of these, ,
the guys I know of the sharp/long range shooters, would really snicker at this, trying to get hold of them get their slant. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2008 at 17:17
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They should only be able to use em in regular rifle season!...IMO
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2009 at 18:02
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I think the centerfire rifle season ought to come first and everyone else can hunt the spooked game after I'm done draggin' mine out.    Bucky   That's what I think........  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2009 at 18:24
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

I think the centerfire rifle season ought to come first and everyone else can hunt the spooked game after I'm done draggin' mine out.    Bucky   That's what I think........  
 
I think by the time you catch your breath, and get it out of there it will be too warm for us to hunt. Think of the rest of us old timer.Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2009 at 18:36
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This is a direct copy from Iowa's regulations. I would assume from this that smokeless muzzleloaders with scopes are good to go there.
 
 I have a friend who just moved here from Iowa, where high powers are not legal, I'll have to ask him.

Muzzleloaders

equipped with electronic ignition are not allowed.

There are no restrictions on in-line or disktype

muzzleloaders. Riflescopes may also be used



Edited by trigger29 - January/01/2009 at 19:06
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2009 at 18:54
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Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

The reason ya'll don't understand the need for these guns is because ya'll are analyzing them from a shooter's standpoint and not from a trophy hunter's standpoint.

In most states muzzle loader season is before rifle season.  This rifle gives you a huge advantage in the field because you can hunt before the real season starts, before the pressure forces the monster bucks and bulls to turn nocturnal.
 
Being able to be in the field before anyone else with a rifle like that and doing it legally is a dream come true for many.  These rifles are expensive but easily justified if you are obsessed with record book type animals.
 
All of the advancements we've seen over the last 10 years in muzzleloaders are directly related to the early seasons.  If there were no early muzzleloader season not many people would own a muzzleloader and not many companies would be developing ways to make them shoot like centerfire rifles.
 
I don't know anyone that owns a muzzleloader around here because we don't have an early season.  I would not be surprised if these early seasons go away or if they regulate them in some way to get the season back to what it was supposed to be (primitive).
 
+++++1
 
I got a savage smokeless ML, I think was $550 or so for a stainless laminate.  A 300g bullet at 2400fps is serious stuff.  No need to spend the big bucks to play at 300 yards plus with a muzzleloader.  Also some states dont allow centerfire rifles, but do allow ML's.
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