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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2010 at 14:52
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
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June 14, 2008 Central Oregon

Today four of us compared some scopes. About noon the weather was totally clear and about 80 degrees. Our ages are 84, 63, 44, and 30.   All the rifle scopes have A.O.  We compared the following.

12-42X56 NightForce
 
6-24X40 Weaver
 
6 1/2-20X50 VX-III
 

6-24X40 Bushnell 4200 

3-15X42 Sightron II
 
4-16X40 Tasco World Class

2 1/2-10X40 Tasco
 
20-60X60 Tasco spotting scope $89 Tom said he shopped all day and found only one spotting scope, a Leupold was any better than the Tasco. This included Nikons and others for a lot more money!

The test:
I lazered a power pole 451 yards distance with the Leica 1200. We all looked through all the scopes and generally agreed until the end.  All of us could easily read the numbers on the transformers with the NightForce and the Tasco spotting scope set on 40X; we all agreed the NightForce being slightly better. When these two were set on 20X the NightForce and the Tasco spotting scope were obviously better than either the Leupie or the Weaver. Between those two the Weaver was better.   The Leupold was only the slightest bit better than the 4200.

When they were all set on 15X the Sightron II came in last.

When everything was set on 10X, we included the two Tascos. Everyone except me said the Tascos were better than the Sightron II. Maybe it's psychological. But when I pay $411 for a Sightron II and only $75 and $71 respectively for a couple Tascos, my mind tells me the Sightron II is better.

Positively all the scopes except the inexpensive Tascos gave natural colors. The Tascos had a very slight yellow tint. I never noticed this before.

A side note. When I purchased the Sightron II, I compared it side by side outside the store after sunset with a non-A.O. 4-12X40 Swarovski ($750) and a 3 1/2-14X50 Leupold
LPS ($1004). The A.O. Sightron II ($411). 
 
I thought the Swaro would win, so I started with it.  I found a twig about two blocks way and memorized its surroundings.  Next I checked it out with the LPS.  The LPS was instantly and obviously better than the Swaro.   It was not a twig, but two twigs very close together. Again, I looked through the Swaro and saw a twig. Next, I looked through the SightronII: Two twigs.

Am I telling you either of theabove Tascos is better than that Swarovski for resolution? You bet! All the others had A.O.  Don't flame. Don't ask me about focus or eye box. Go to the store and compare for yourself.  Adjustable objectives work for any kind of distance if you want to see clearly.


Edited by cheaptrick - November/14/2010 at 15:28
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2010 at 15:29
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Thank you for your review.
I took the liberty of editing a few links that were from SWFA competitors.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2010 at 15:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2010 at 15:52
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I have a Swaro Z6, a Sightron big sky, a Bushnell 4200, a Tasco 2.5-10x, a Trijicon.  None of them are even remotely comparable to the swaro.  Not even close. 

I am not sure who you think you are fooling with your recent reviews but you are giving out flat our incorrect info.

Sounds like to me that you just want to justify to yourself that cheaper scopes are better than the high end scopes to make you feel better about them.  Fact is, it is just not true.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2010 at 16:59
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I have a Swaro Z6, a Sightron big sky, a Bushnell 4200, a Tasco 2.5-10x, a Trijicon.  None of them are even remotely comparable to the swaro.  Not even close. 

I am not sure who you think you are fooling with your recent reviews but you are giving out flat our incorrect info.

Sounds like to me that you just want to justify to yourself that cheaper scopes are better than the high end scopes to make you feel better about them.  Fact is, it is just not true.
 
Congrats on owning sme nice stuff.  I also hav a varity of scopes and binocs.
 
Fact is the test I conducted yesterday with the Bushnell 6500, the NightForce and the Swaroski were scopes I paid for and are owned by me .  I also have own the Weaver mentioned in the post above.  Also I own a very nice 2 1/2-8X32 EER Leupold with is attached to a Freedom Arms .454.
 
Does any of this change the fact that four fellows concluced the same things about all the the scopes except me and the the Tascos?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2010 at 20:50
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Wasn't it suggested in an earlier review thread that you preface each of these comparisons with the fact that you are blind?  It's not fair to readers to not state this up front.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 07:21
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Tell ya what, Rich...

I will straight up trade you any optic Tasco makes or has made for your defective 4-12X Swaro scope, as long as the Tasco of your dreams is still available out there somewhere. 

I won't even require you to kick in any extra cash to make the deal more fair... straight up!  That's just the kind of nice guy I am!

Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 07:23
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Excellent your a stand up guy there Ted
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 07:53
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               Get Your Popcorn Ready
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 09:50
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Before we proceed with our trade, I gotta know, Rich... where did you get a Swaro 4-12X40?  I was only aware of Swaro producing a 4-12X50.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 09:51
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Heck, I will go buy you any bushnell 4200 you want if you will trade me for your Swaro.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 10:58
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Yippee  These are so much fun.........
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 11:48
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Before we proceed with our trade, I gotta know, Rich... where did you get a Swaro 4-12X40?  I was only aware of Swaro producing a 4-12X50.
Was wondering the exact same thing here.

Edited by Chris Farris II - November/15/2010 at 11:50
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 13:03
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Rich, I commend yo for your efforts and it is great that you are able to test stuff and pick what truly works for your eyes (I really wish you would put in a disclaimer about your vision issues).

My experience directly contradicts yours, but everyone's eyes are different.

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 13:15
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I must have similar vision to Ilya as I totaly agree with his statement.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 13:35
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I am not one to put down others findings by any means, nor do I condemn you for finding what works for you. At the same time I don't agree at all with the fact you didn't mention the issues with your eyes, or your findings. I think 99% of people will find the same things Koshkin, Stickbow, myself, and many others have and will continue to find.

Edited by Cope6.5/284 - November/15/2010 at 13:46
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 13:42
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May be Tasco's best advertising campaign and they don't even know it. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 13:48
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Let us not discriminate against the blind, they too have interest in optics.

Rich, it's not nearly as much fun when you lob them over the plate like this.

I am right-handed, I would never comment on the utility or function of a left-handed device without expressly stating that I am right-handed.  The "fact" that it didn't work for me would be irrelevant to anyone left-handed.  To a righty that wanted to know of the item's utility, it would be useful.

Likewise, for the throngs of night-blind people out there, your reviews are probably invaluable; however, it is of considerable importance that they know the "bias" introduced by your blindness.

Optics physicists and optics engineers (with healthy vision) find the opposite of what you see - as do the overwhelming majority of individuals looking through and using conventional rifle scopes.  Newton was right, frame of reference is very important.

There were other more colorful metaphors I could'a used, but decided against it.

And I shoot quite well left-handed, so maybe that ain't an ideal example.

Forget all that.

As you were.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 15:19
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Rich,
what I'd like to know is which is your age? in one post you state that you are 66...in this post you are either 83,63,44, or 30, assuming you were actually one of the testers. you also tested a scope that apparently does not exist. my point is, if you dont even know how old you are, or which scope you tested, or disclose the fact that your vision is impaired...how can you post test results and claim them as facts that are actually useful to the rest of us?  Frankly, I'm beginning to suspect that night blindness is not the major issue in your results. One thing that has been helpful to me at least in reading these test results...Is that the more of them I read, the more I realize how truly lucky we are to have ILya Koshkin!
 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 15:22
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Originally posted by tman1965 tman1965 wrote:

Rich,
 One thing that has been helpful to me at least in reading these test results...Is that the more of them I read, the more I realize how truly lucky we are to have ILya Koshkin!
 
 
I'll second that notion
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 15:23
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ILya for president.  American Flag
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 15:35
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ckk1106 ckk1106 wrote:

Wasn't it suggested in an earlier review thread that you preface each of these comparisons with the fact that you are blind?  It's not fair to readers to not state this up front.  
 
Does my nightblindness rub off on the other three fellows who looked through the optics in the middle of the day?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 15:37
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Tell ya what, Rich...

I will straight up trade you any optic Tasco makes or has made for your defective 4-12X Swaro scope, as long as the Tasco of your dreams is still available out there somewhere. 

I won't even require you to kick in any extra cash to make the deal more fair... straight up!  That's just the kind of nice guy I am!

Apparently you didn't read all the info about the Swaroski 4-12X.  It didn't have adjustable objective so it could not keep up with the other two scopes.  I didn't purchase it.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 15:38
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Rich, I commend yo for your efforts and it is great that you are able to test stuff and pick what truly works for your eyes (I really wish you would put in a disclaimer about your vision issues).

My experience directly contradicts yours, but everyone's eyes are different.

ILya
 
How is it that all four of us came to the same conclusion about all he scope except the last htree? 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2010 at 15:40
Rich Coyle View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cope6.5/284 Cope6.5/284 wrote:

I am not one to put down others findings by any means, nor do I condemn you for finding what works for you. At the same time I don't agree at all with the fact you didn't mention the issues with your eyes, or your findings. I think 99% of people will find the same things Koshkin, Stickbow, myself, and many others have and will continue to find.
 
How do you account for the other three guys making the same observations?
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