AR-15 Trigger Job

advise deleted

Edited by SVT_Tactical - December/31/2009 at 07:56

Did you reharden the metal?  If you didn't they will wear out in very few rounds and your gun could have the potential to start shooting bursts. 

Sears and hammers and hardened from the factory so they will not wear out very fast.  Just the slightest polishing and grinding will wear that very thin layer or hardener right off the trigger. 

I thought of that too but looked at the material and even called a couple manufacturing/distributor companies for USGI triggers.  They all stated there was no hardening process done to the parts where the sears touch.  I will let you know in the long run if anything comes up but on a few ar forums some guys have ran this set up for years with no problems.

Edited by SVT_Tactical - December/29/2009 at 10:11

GEISSELE TRIGGERS ARE THE BEST AND WELL WORTH THE EXTRA MONEY NOTHING COMPARES TO THEM...

SVT_Tactical wrote:   They all stated there was no hardening process done to the parts where the sears touch.

Whoever told you that doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  All sear surfaces HAVE to be heat treated / case hardened / through hardened for longevity and safety.  If the trigger parts were through hardened, you don't have a problem.  If they were case hardened, you could have a problem if you ground through the case.  If you polished only, chances are you don't have a problem.

All i did was polish the above mentioned youtube video does have the guy using a stone but i wasn't looking to remove material only polish it. 

I have used the Geissel triggers, and your right,  but for money I like my $5 investment and spent the rest of my coin on other stuff. lol

Thanks for the links!

RifleDude wrote: SVT_Tactical wrote:   They all stated there was no hardening process done to the parts where the sears touch.   Whoever told you that doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  All sear surfaces HAVE to be heat treated / case hardened / through hardened for longevity and safety.  If the trigger parts were through hardened, you don't have a problem.  If they were case hardened, you could have a problem if you ground through the case.  If you polished only, chances are you don't have a problem.

I agree with part one and two. You would have a very hard time getting through the hardened layer using rouge and a felt wheel. If you ground with an abrasive wheel before polishing you could be in trouble.

Let us know if you run into any problems. I've got a couple I'd like to work on too. Wonder if this procedure works on an AR10?

Hey, thanks for the info.  My ar trigger is gritty.  I have done trigger jobs on pistols, revolvers and rifles.  This is going to be on my to do list. 

BillyWayne wrote: Hey, thanks for the info.  My ar trigger is gritty.  I have done trigger jobs on pistols, revolvers and rifles.  This is going to be on my to do list.

Edited by SVT_Tactical - December/30/2009 at 08:15

doing trigger jobs on ars has been around sense Vietnam. most of the triggers and parts from ar's are investment castings, not good tool steel which is cut to dimension than heat treated for hardness. this means that steels using low dimensional change are chosen for the parts , to cut down on fitting labor. Ars have large dimensions in both the pins, and holes and the actual contact parts involved. In some cases I've seen sear and hammer surfaces with less than 20% contact. sometimes removing material and trying to get a higher percentage contact works. Biggest problem with the ar trigger group (besides pins and holes dimensions) is the basic design. The single lever design at the base of the hammer puts too much pressure on the contacting surfaces. also using the primary sear as part of the trigger is not a good idea for a good trigger group. In contrast the M1a trigger group uses the hammer lever further up, and reduces the release pressure considerably, and the reason why a good m1a can have an outstanding trigger pull. Most after market triggers are designed to correct this geometry mistake, and do so very well. Anything on youtube should be considered for entertainment purposes only.

Dale Clifford wrote: doing trigger jobs on ars has ............................ ...........................................................this geometry mistake, and do so very well. Anything on youtube should be considered for entertainment purposes only.

thats one thing if its from midway.

Maybe I am interpreting this wrong.......  Yes if it is from Joe Blow with his camera in his shop maybe take some warning not to take it as qualified, However the fact that so many sites are referencing the website and youtube videos to expand on what the website is talking about I figure its educational enough.  I agree that not all on youtube is informational and should be used but not everything thats on there is entertainment.  The number of people that are trying this technique is growing daily. Worst case senerio is for someone to try it, no like it, buy replacement springs ($5) and new trigger ($12) and be back at the start. at square one.  I challenge anyone to try this and not think that this is a 100% inprovement from the stock USGI issue trigger pull.

I tried one similar to that which I found off a internet site and it did not take long til my trigger started to not catch.  Got a few double taps.  At first I could not figure out what was wrong, then it dawned on me it must have been my do it yourself trigger job.  I took to much of the surface off and got through the hardener and just kind of rounded my parts off a little.  It only took 300 to 400 rounds to cause it.  But it was fun having it burst on the range. 

It was most likely me just not doing it right, but it made me pretty nervous about doing it again.  I replaced it with a Timney and it is much better than my trigger job anyway.   Course it cost me $200

Brownells sell surface hardener that you can apply with a torch to harden it back up.  Might be worth doing.  A couple guys I know have used it on AR parts and said it works great. 

I think the biggest warning from all this is not to remove material only polish the surfaces on the sear.  I do not recommend changing specs only removing the machining marks by doing a good polish.

there is nothing new here, its been done since vietnam, its just you kids are finding out about it. even if you do just polish, the chances  the hammer sear "chips" and goes auto is higher, basic trigger groups in most ars are basic sh*t, plain and simple. cleaning up the angles and contacts surfaces is the problem, not just a simple polish, this is best done by drop in "hanger" groups where the relation of the sears is kept constant by a box, and the entire group is allowed to float in the lower via the pin assembly.

 I'll throw my opinion in here if anybody cares to hear it.  

Edited by RONK - December/30/2009 at 19:22

Thanks Dale and Ronk. Your experience can help save alot of heart ache "if heeded". I don't hesitate to polish or tweak something if I can't find any info on the pros & cons. But like you said, I run the risk of having to start over or replace parts sometimes. My advantage is years of experience making tools and parts when needed. Or know I can order what I need if necessary. I also appreciate you statment about being willing to make the effort for improvment. It helps one to better understand function and purpose. Then before you know it someone has come up with an improvment that we all can benefit from.

Any chance any one on this thread has even ever heard of Geisselle triggers... Absolte gold for the civilan market...

pro nounced in some groups the Victoria Secret Gisele Bunchkin but really GUY LEE...

338LAPUASLAP wrote: Any chance any one on this thread has even ever heard of Geisselle triggers... Absolte gold for the civilan market...

I'm running one that I got frome White Oak Armory -  they are the best available.

off topic a bit, but will add anyway---  when early ignition occurs, due to hammer follow down, and bolt is not timed , part of the locking lug of the first one to engage, can be chipped or peened back. This occurs more with mauser type (two lugs, ak,m1a,xcr) than ar short rotating bolts, which will chip out an entire piece of the tightess fitting lug. I know thisfrom experience of working with NFA guns alot. take it or leave it.

338LAPUASLAP wrote: pro nounced in some groups the Victoria Secret Gisele Bunchkin but really GUY LEE...   Why tinker and risk something unexected happening...if you want to tinker get out your 10/22 you can work on those triggers all day...