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Any suggestions for new variable

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 20:37
jonoMT View Drop Down
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I'm considering a new variable with the following requirements:

  1. mil-dot or similar reticle
  2. target turrets
  3. mrad clicks
  4. max mag. on the low end of 4
  5. min mag on the high end of 12
  6. dead nuts reliability
  7. under $2000
Unfortunately, that rules out the 3-9 SS and the new Vortex HD 5-20. So far, that leaves me with options like the IOR 2-12, USO 3.2-17 or NF 3.5-15. What others should I consider, given these criteria? Ideally, I could stick with a 30 mm tube too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 21:04
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"Unfortunately, that rules out the 3-9 SS and the new Vortex HD 5-20." (Which just happen to be MY min max scopes.)

UNDER $2000? Thats a tuff one. As we say around these parts, "You can't get there from here" If I had to look there, it would be USO, S&B, ZEISS HENSOLDT, Premier & Nightforce. In that order, and by your pricepoint, "you can't get there from here"

Yanno, I hear the MILLET LRS-1 is a bargain at $469
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 21:06
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Can't edit my posts here?

"USO 3.2-17" IMHO, you answered your own question.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 22:32
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Originally posted by Halvis Halvis wrote:

"
Yanno, I hear the MILLET LRS-1 is a bargain at $469


Sigh. Any intelligent suggestions out there?

If the three that I mentioned are the only ones out there in that quality range under $2K then I'll be more than happy with any of them. Most of all, I'd love to see an SS in 4-12, secondly a Vortex HD in 3.5-14. But gee, thanks for mentioning all the brands over $2K that will be so incredibly better than a Nightforce.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 02:34
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I would probably check this one out:

That is a kick ass scope for just about any light.

Premier Reticles 3-15x50 would fit your description very well, except it is a bit over $2k.

From the IOR line-up, 3-18x42 is probably the most versatile option.  On the other hand the 4-14x50 has been around for a while and has a better track record as far as durability goes.  That having been said, my 3-18x42 is holding up just fine despite occasional abuse.  However, it has never been on a major kicker.

ILya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 09:03
jonoMT View Drop Down
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Thanks Koshkin,

I'll check those out. I forgot about the IOR 3-18, which I have noted before. That might be just the ticket. It's going on a .308 so no worries about hard-kicking. The Premier is over my budget but I'm only buying one scope for this rifle. Does that Zeiss have target knobs? I couldn't tell? I'd also really prefer to go MRAD on the clicks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 09:57
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if the sfp and ffp isn't a big problem-- koshkins choice is without a doubt the best.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 12:30
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

if the sfp and ffp isn't a big problem-- koshkins choice is without a doubt the best.

I think Zeiss Victory is now available with both SFP and FFP.

I am not sure about the knobs though.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 12:52
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I have the Zeiss in 3-12 and mine is not target knobs (but is FFP, which I like on a #4 reticle.)


If the gun is not a boomer, consider the IOR 3-18 or 4-14.  IOR's glass is great (for the money) - but dead-nutz reliable is something that has to be evaluated on a scope-by-scope basis, so you don't get that guarantee up front.

The Premier is slightly over your budget, but I'd recommend re-evaluating the budget, it is a great scope with great build quality and great glass.  It meets all your requirements and has some nice extras too.


If you could give a little more detail about how to rank the needs, it'll help.


A USO SN3 is a truly great scope (and can be configured any way you want it.)  With the economic downturn, they can be had at some great prices right now in used scopes - and USO stands behind their stuff.


Nightforce F1 is just above your price range but is also a nice scope.  Between Premier and Nightforce, I'd get the Premier.  Nightforce has the menu selection in reticles.

Of all the options, given your price range, I'd say save for another month and get the Premier - or get a nice, lightly used USO SN3.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 13:12
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My suggestions:

New scope:  IOR 3-18 FFP.  For more of a warm fuzzy over reliability (though I believe the IOR will do fine on the 308) now, give up the new scope smell and look for a used Premier or Nightforce F1.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 15:28
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If you have the money to buy a U.S. Optics scope do so but if you cant afford it a Nightforce is still a very nice scope.  I have looked and looked for a scope similar to what you are talking about and at a lower price range you just cant get there.  The Bushnell 4200 4-16x40 is a nice reliable scope with great glass and finger adjustable clicks similar to target knobs but half the size still useable to dial in correction, down side is limited internal adjustment.   The sightron SIII scopes have plenty of internal adjustment and are a valid consideration.  I'm a tad uneasy with IOR as far as customer service in the future considering all the crazy stuff going on in the world.  Leupold scopes have plenty of adjustment but not mil mil. To stay under 2K I think some of the wish list may have to be compromised.  Also I think it is pointless to say I rule out the 3-9 SS and something that is 12x on the top end is enough.  If you need the next step up we are talking a 4-16 or 5-20 type optic, why stop at 12x .  I did notice some Hourus scopes on the list of SWFA scopes so if a fancy reticle will do you they are within budget.  I still really liked the TR23R 5-20x50 Trijicon scopes but the only have 50 moa of internal adjustment one of those with the mil dot may be a reasonable consideration if you can live with less moa. The other consideration is a Zeiss with a rapid Z1000 reticle.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - October/13/2009 at 15:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 17:10
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As I replied to another member via PM:

It's amazing to me how there's so much at the high end and so much at the low end when it comes to optics but not a lot in the middle. Seems like someone could make a super-reliable mil/mil scope and sell it for $1200. I've thought about just doing another NF 2.5-10x32 like I have on my LTR but the more I use that scope the more I regret not having got it with MRAD turrets and zero stop. I didn't realize that the turrets don't otherwise indicate that you've gone a full turn past your zero. I'm also looking for some more magnification so paying $1550 for one w/zero stop vs. $190 more for the 3.5-15x50 doesn't seem worth it.

Thought I'd put that out here on the topic for anyone to see. Ur...frnd, I'm not ruling out the SS 3-9. It is an awesome scope for a great price. What I'm finding, however, is that there are times when I really like the low-end to be low (something where the 2.5-10 NF really shines) but am finding that I'd like more mag on the high end. How much more? I would be okay with 12 so that's why I said that. If I was to hear over and over again that the IOR 3-18 was a super-reliable scope that would be an awesome range. I know I'm going to have to compromise somewhere...and it may well be in the wallet. Right now, I'm leaning toward the NF 3.5-15 but I would prefer to buy something that SFWA carries.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 17:53
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If you want the versatility of large magnification range, than your options are somewhat limited.  To get everything that you want, just bite the bullet and get Premier 3-15x50.  Then you will have no regrets in the future.

If you can not compromise on price, I think IOR 3-18x42 is a good choice.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 18:14
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If you want the versatility of large magnification range, than your options are somewhat limited.  To get everything that you want, just bite the bullet and get Premier 3-15x50.  Then you will have no regrets in the future.

If you can not compromise on price, I think IOR 3-18x42 is a good choice.

ILya



I concur.


Having not played with the new Vortex (and owning almost everything with which it competes), I can say that the Premier is my favorite at this moment.  The glass is better than my USO SN3 and on par with my Diavari 3-12 (high praise, indeed), and the turrets aren't quite as good as USO's EREK, but ain't bad - and the illumination is better, and the reticle is great, and it's easy to get behind, and everything is where it should be and works as it should.


Having said all that, IOR's glass is good, and if you get a 3-18 for a .308, you should be fine - especially if it is a non-generation 1 scope.



Edited by Rancid Coolaid - October/13/2009 at 18:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 18:44
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

...just bite the bullet and get Premier 3-15x50.  Then you will have no regrets in the future.
ILya


Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Having not played with the new Vortex (and owning almost everything with which it competes), I can say that the Premier is my favorite at this moment.  The glass is better than my USO SN3 and on par with my Diavari 3-12 (high praise, indeed), and the turrets aren't quite as good as USO's EREK, but ain't bad - and the illumination is better, and the reticle is great, and it's easy to get behind, and everything is where it should be and works as it should.

Alright, goldangit. And, Halvis, my apologies for being a bit rude. Looks like gettin' from here to there is just gonna require a bridge of gold. Well, as I've heard it said: It's better to regret something you have done than something you haven't.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2009 at 04:38
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My Brother, I'll say it again. Pony up, pay once and cry once....  you know the rest.   LOL!!! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2009 at 23:40
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Shame on you now you are encouraging me to want a Premier. Yikes Sticker shock.  I've really been wanting something with higher magnification, I sure thought the 5-20x50 Trijicon was going to be it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2009 at 18:47
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From your older posts you seem to be pleased with your NF scope. I think you would just as pleased with a NF 3.5-15. It has all the features you are looking for. And is within your budget. Or for a few hundred more you can get a USO 3.2-17 and it is also within your budget.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2009 at 21:41
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Sparky, I am still quite happy with my NF 2.5-10x32 (I only wish I had gotten it mil/mil with zero stop). I looked long and hard at the various options, including the FFP and SFP NF 3.5-15s. I just kept coming back to the Premier, however, and finally made one of those you-only-live-once decisions. I am really looking forward to that box from SWFA. I've always been one of those people who don't need a lot of things but what I have I really like to work well and last forever.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 09:49
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Congrats, you will enjoy it immensely.

What reticle and turrets did you get?  Gen 2 mil dot or XR?  And double-turn or single-turn?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 14:21
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Gen 2 mil dot and the 22mrad single turn. I think I'll be okay with that vs. the double turn.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 14:53
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Very nice! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on your new purchase. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 14:56
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Mine is exact same setup.  Th clicks are close together but very well defined.

And, though it ain't best for long-range, high-precision ranging, I like the Gen 2 mil dot best.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 14:59
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

And, though it ain't best for long-range, high-precision ranging, I like the Gen 2 mil dot best.


Could you expound on that comment please?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 15:42
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From what I researched, because the scope is FFP the reticle getting smaller at lower magnification the XR gradations can get hard to see. Also, to me, the mil dot provides a better cross hair at lower magnification (more like any duplex scope). I think Premier got the thickness just right.

Here are pics of the two - at relative magnifications (not what you would actually see really looking through the scope. I scaled the two reticles to each other using dim. G from the mil dot image and dim. F from the XR image):







Edited by jonoMT - October/16/2009 at 16:06
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