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Anti-Leupold Bias

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2004 at 08:50
mwyates View Drop Down
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There seems to be a lot of anti-Leupold bias here, and I wonder where it comes from?  Certainly not from anybody who's actually using them. (I started a new topic about a month ago asking what people actually owned and what they thought of it; only four people responded).  I have owned and used Leupolds for 40 years, with never a problem of any sort.  Are there better, and worse, scopes? Of course!   Is Leupold overpriced?  Absolutely not.  They are consistently as good as or better than anything in their price range.  For example, the Leupold VX III and the Burris Signature Select are close in price, and optically equivalent in the two models that I OWN.  Build quality of the Leupold is superior, thoough.  Another example is seen in a recent post comparing the VX III to the Zeiss Conquest.  A couple of responders said the VX III is "not in the same league", but the only responder who OWNS both scopes said he prefers the Leupold.  At one time I OWNED a Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40 and a VX III 2.5-8X36.  I still OWN the VX III because it was as good or better in every respect.   I've also seen VX III and Vari X III used interchangeably here.  They are not the same quality.  The Zeiss Conquest was superior to the Vari X III.  Discussion forums are just that, but I'd like to see more of what people know and have experienced.  That way we can all be better informed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2004 at 10:35
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I have owned a number of Leupolds over the years and I have been happy with their performance.  At the same time the only scopes that I have ever had to send in for warranty work were Leupolds and one went back multiple times.  The service that I received was first rate everytime.  Now all of that being said, I think that they are overpriced and over hyped for what they are.  And to my eyes, the Zeiss Conquest is Superior in every way to the VX-III.  Also, in my experience, Burris is superior to Leupold.  Leupold does a great job of marketing and they certainly stand behind their product.  But, as long as the VX-III cost more than a comparable Conquest, I will never buy another Leupold.  Incidentally, when I made the switch to Zeiss, I gave away my Leupolds.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2004 at 11:14
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ranburr....you state my opinions exactly.  I have Zeiss Conquest 3-10x44, Pentax Lightseeker3-9x42, and Burris Signature which I consider all in the same price range as Leupold VXIII, and I consider all of these scopes as superior to Leupold.  This is from personal experience.  I sold my last VXIII last year and unless something changes I will not buy another one.  Like I said before (as you did) Leupold is a marketing genius w/ great service, but I have never needed service on any of my other scopes anyway.  FYI...I consider my swaro A-line 3-10x42 superior to just a about anything.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2004 at 11:26
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Leupolds are over overpriced
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2004 at 11:57
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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Leupold is king and has been for years.  The competition stopped fighting each other and all seemed to aim their guns at Leupold at once.  Grand Slam, Elite 4200, Fullfield II, Conquest and Monarch are all legitimate contenders.  We have never seen more choices and competition than we have today.  In the long run the consumer wins because manufacturers are forced to improve and expand their product lines while sharpening their pencils on pricing at the same time.  For years Leupold did not change anything except pricing.  The Vari-X II remained unchanged since the 70's until recently.  The new models and upgrades from Leupold are a direct result of them losing market share to the above mentioned competition.

 

I love Leupold scopes for all the same reasons you mention.  No other scope maker offers a wider selection and as many variations.  You can get a Leupold scope in so many configuration that one of them is bound to be perfect for your application.

 

With the advent of the Internet consumers are able to become more educated as to options, features and comparisons.  I think this is the main reason we are seeing such a divertisy in sales.  People want the best value they can get for their money.  Leupold is making a strong come back with their latest models and repositioning of the VX-1 and VX-II but it may be too little too late.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2004 at 12:03
Shamus View Drop Down
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Like most, the only real problem I have with the Leupolds is their price.  For the optical quality and adjustments there are significant price differences between them and their competitors.  Now technically within the capitalist model, they aren't overpriced because they are still selling them at that price.  I think this has more to do with the fact that people know the name, have seen the ads, want to impress their buddies and don't have hours to spend annoying the guys at their local outdoor stores optics counter to do the comparisons, rather than the good and sometimes great optical quality they possess.

 

I've been looking hard for a couple of new scopes for my Tikka T3s ( 7mag and .270 ).

 

On the higher end, in the 4-16 (ish) range, the Bushnell Elite 4200 and Weaver Grand Slam and Nikon Monarch are $150 to $200 less than the VX3.   Down a level, in the 3-9ish range, the Sightron S2, Burris FF2 and Bushnell Elite 3200 are $100 less than the VX2 (and the Burris FF2 and Sightron are (IMHO) better optically).



Edited by Shamus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2004 at 09:59
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mwyates, I currently OWN 3 Leupold's (VXIII- 1.75-6, 2.5-8 and a VXIII 4.5-14x40) plus two older model VX-II, a 2-7 and a 3-9. None of them can compare to the B&L Elite 4000's or Bushnell Elite 4200's. I have 2 B&L Elites and 4 Bushnell Elites and I can say that the VXIII's that I OWN are NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE as the Elite 4000/4200 series that I OWN from an optical standpoint. All of the scopes have been at one time or another mounted on some hard kicking rifles/slug guns and none have failed. As, far as being overpriced, I will quote what Chris said and yet you figure it out.

"Leupold is making a strong come back with their latest models and repositioning of the VX-1 and VX-II but it may be too little too late". "Leupold is king and has been for years". The two don't seem to go together.

In my opinion, Leupold has a well earned reputation for making durable scopes. However, optically, you can do better, sometimes, a lot better in the case of the Elite 4200's for less money that you could call your OWN!!!



Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2004 at 10:30
Shamus View Drop Down
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I think that Leupold has been the 'King' for quite sometime but primarily from a sales standpoint rather than an optical standpoint. 

 

Not that long ago, there weren't very many players in the high quality, top warranty and durability segment.  Now, the competition at home and in Asia has stepped up their game bigtime, and Leupold has had to respond with better optics/features and shifting their lines around a bit.

 

Also, the internet itself has allowed for much more information and discussion about scopes and other types of equipment so the consumer can be more informed now, and they are no longer limited to what their local sportsmans store carries.  All of these factors have made a difference in my opinion.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2004 at 12:18
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The VXIII is a Conquest clone, at best. 

 

I'm not a Loopie hater. They are overrated somewhat I believe. But, they are OK for most shooting situations. Great CS dept, lifetime warranty, etc.

 

I don't understand why someone gets accused of bashing a Leupold scope, for merely stating that they like something better. Like me.



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2004 at 12:46
mwyates View Drop Down
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Thanks for all the input.  Optics discussions are just as stimulating as "Which caliber is best for deer" or "Which rifle is best all around".  Obviously, we all have our bias.  "It's a Zeiss, it's got to be better!" or "It's a Bushnell, can't be too good!".   I just like to see what's behind it.  Also, I emphasize OWN because every forum is visited by a certain percentage of 13 year olds who have read all the catalogs and regurgitate what they have read (this is not all bad; it's a great thing for them to be interested in).  For example, I was browsing around yesterday and came across reviews of the Hummer H2.  There were 57 reviews, and only five of them were by anybody who had actually bought a Hummer.

 

I have several Burris scopes; an FF2, a Signature Select; a Black Diamond.  In each of them, optical quality seems to be equal to an equivalent Leupold.  However, overall quality of every one of the Burris is less than my Leupolds.  For example, all of the Burris scopes develop an oily film around the zoom and focusing ring.  I've never had any leakage on any Leupold.  Will I always buy Leupold over Burris?  Heck no!  The 3-9X40 FF2 is the best buy in rifle scopes.

 

I will confess I haven't given the Bushnell Elites a chance (It's a Bushnell) but I will because of what I have read here. 

 

I think what we are seeing happen is the same thing that happened in the camera world a few years ago.  Then, if it wasn't German, it was inferior, and the Japanese products were junk.  Now look who's king.  This is happening in the binocular world, now.  Nikon LX is top rated by many, but a lot of people buy Steiner because they are German, even though they aren't very good.  I just bought a pair of Pentax 8X43 SP's from SWFA.  Are they as good as Leica Ultravids? Not quite. Are Leicas worth more than twice as much?  No way.  What about Kahles at the same price as the Pentax?  To use a familiar quote, "not in the same league".

 

We're blessed to have more good and affordable optics than ever before.  To say that all Leupolds are inferior or overpriced is just babble, and no different than saying all European optics are superior or all Bushnell scopes are junk, or all dogs are wolves

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2004 at 12:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2004 at 16:35
ranburr View Drop Down
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If nothing other than perception, Leupold is overpriced for what you get.  If I were at Leupold I would look at forums like this and listen to what people who own multiple scopes have to say.  Because, if you think about it, perception is reality when it comes to sales.  By the way, to my eyes, the Kahles are superior to the Pentax.   

 

ranburr



Edited by ranburr
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2004 at 16:45
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i LOVE leupold, and is my brand of choice, i just realize that there are scopes that are as good, and soem that are better for the same price, or less, but i like the warranty, and durability.

 

cory

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