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Another scope evaluation

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8shots View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another scope evaluation
    Posted: March/23/2009 at 06:51
This week end I attended a field shoot. On display were 6 scopes mounted side by side.
 
 
Coditions were bright sunny and a target of a springbuck in full colour was up at 200 meters.
 At the bottom of the target was a small zebra picture of about 3 inches, which gave something nice to look at to try out the difference in clarity.
Take note that we could only look through the scopes and it was a bright  sunny day. I looked at them at different magnifications and then at all set at 14x as this was the max for the Leupold MK4.
So how did they stack up:
 
Nightforce 3rd place
Zeis Victory 1st place and everybody agreed.
Leupold Mk1 2nd place
Vortex 5th place Viper 6,5-20x40
Nikon Monarch 6th place
Zeis Conquest 4th place.
 
If one took the $$$ pricing into consideration, then the Leupold is good value for money at $1500. The Nightforce at $2500 and Zeis Victory at $2100 is a bit over the top.
The Vortex at $650 was a real surprise.


Edited by 8shots - March/24/2009 at 04:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martin3175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 07:15

Nice looking test rig 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 07:23
To my limited knowledge, Nightforce makes nothing that sells for $3,500, can you be more specific as to what it was?  It looks like a normal NXS 3-15 which sells for about $1700.


And though the Vicoty may be expensive, of the lot, it will perform best in low light as well as bright sun light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 07:31
I quoted prices as given by some of the guys at the stand. I have now checked the prices (as I should have done in the first place) and they are slightly overstated)
 
That was the 5,5-22x50 NXS. All prices quoted are retail prices in South Africa at R10 to the $. So the NXS retails for about R25 000.
 
I could not compare the low light abilities. Also in South Africa we have limited low light needs.
 


Edited by 8shots - March/23/2009 at 07:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 08:42
In bright sunlight with a 200-yard target, I would agree with the rankings - mostly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 09:39
Interesting info, and nice lineup of scopes, Wouter!
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 09:54
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

In bright sunlight with a 200-yard target, I would agree with the rankings - mostly.


They are about what you'd expect. But this is certainly evaluating only a few aspects of a scope. I admit they're important. Too bad they didn't let you guys shoot with them, although we all know the effort and time it would require to really run scopes through a test.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 16:48
Most any decent quality glass looks good in the broad daylight.  This test really proves nothing to me (no offense). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 308WIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 19:07
no surprise zeiss wins
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 20:02
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

 
I could not compare the low light abilities. Also in South Africa we have limited low light needs.
 


Thank you Wouter, for the results.
As many fail to observe, low light capability matters for the way some of us hunt.


Edited by tahqua - March/23/2009 at 20:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 20:06
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

 
I could not compare the low light abilities. Also in South Africa we have limited low light needs.
 


Thank you Wouter, for the results.
As many fail to observe, low light capability matters for the way some of us hunt.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2009 at 23:26
What Vortex scope was it, Crossfire, Diamondback or Viper?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 02:35
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Most any decent quality glass looks good in the broad daylight.  This test really proves nothing to me (no offense). 
 
 
 
JGRaider, you are right on the money. If you look at most scopes for the fleeting seconds it takes to pull of a shot, the glass  in most mid-range priced scopes are more then adequate.
 
As for the line-up, it took a lot of looking at the minute detail of the zebra to try and pick a winner. A casual observer looking at only the springbuck and with the brand names hidden, could most likely pick a different winner then the Zeis. Would these rankings translate to low light viewing???
 
I have done several different tests with colour charts and all that and have come to the exact same conclusion as you. In normal daylight decent scope glass are very similiar. We as hunters often do not look past the glass quality issue. We do not pay enough attention to the dials and other issues that make up a good scope.
 
When target shooting, I think it is a different matter as one looks through the scope for longer periods. The scope with the clearer glass will give less eye fatigue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 02:37
Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

What Vortex scope was it, Crossfire, Diamondback or Viper?
 
Viper 6,5-20x40 at R6500 or $650
 
Edited above


Edited by 8shots - March/24/2009 at 04:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 02:46
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

What Vortex scope was it, Crossfire, Diamondback or Viper?
 
Diamondback.


Are you sure about that?

The fourth scope down in the picture has a fairly unique looking Viper eyepiece.

Also, Diamondback scopes do not have anything above 12x in magnification.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 04:20
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

What Vortex scope was it, Crossfire, Diamondback or Viper?
 
Diamondback.


Are you sure about that?

The fourth scope down in the picture has a fairly unique looking Viper eyepiece.

Also, Diamondback scopes do not have anything above 12x in magnification.

ILya
 
Koshkin, thanks for pointing that out, got the wrong model. I phoned the suppliers and got the correct info.
Problem at these demo are that the attendant give out a lot of wrong info.
 
It was in fact a Viper 6,5-20x44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 10:55
During normal lighting conditions all these scopes perform well.If it were in low light I believe the Leupold would be no brighter or clearer than the Monarch.I haven't used a Vortex Viper but from what people are saying it's a bargain like the Sightron.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 12:40
how does zeiss build better optics?
scope users still wouldn't use the information
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 13:04
Okay...........you were right Dale. Scope users wouldn't use that information. Somebody would have to explain to me what it said first.Bucky

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 13:19
How would you use this information as it pertains to scopes, Dale?

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 14:33
Tagged for interest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 14:35
camera lens companys are in perhaps the most competitive market there is -- but its relatively easy to find an mtf curve for say a Canon 200mm L or expressed as an index. The cut throat market has produced some outstanding products, not the least of which is image stabilization in some canon lens and binocs. Pressure by scope purchasers, could make 3rd parties, (magazines, vendors) supply this informatin. While the zoom ranges on variable rifle scope encompass a much wider range than camera lenses the nature of the mtf information still makes it usuable. The average hunter or scope user doesn't really need to know the nitty behind mtf, only that say a Sightron 6.5x20 class scope has a higher index or the curves were in a more advantage place on the graph for certain usage. Obviously there would still be differences in scope utility such as quality of turrets, choice of reticles, but at least they could be evaluated on a seperate level. This type of project could be accomplished with a digiscope adaptor and a good pro level camera body. (Raw data file with fine detail).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2009 at 14:49
The only problem with that is that you have a human eye looking at the image, not an imaging sensor, and everyone has slightly different eyes.  MTF information is interesting and certainly usable, but not easily so.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2009 at 10:22
there is no eye involved in the camera lens or the scope except maybe in the alignment process, the digital sensor records the information coming thru the scope lenses, makes a vector file, downloaded to a computer which then does a transformation (using fourier) spits out the numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2009 at 12:44
The eye is involved in looking at the image through the scope.

ILya
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