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Another handgun "stopping power" study

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2012 at 20:16
RifleDude View Drop Down
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I know this has been beat to death, but...

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2012 at 20:40
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Nice probably should be a sticky.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2012 at 20:50
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I love this debate.

I will be entertained the rest of my life with this.

I don't put a hat in the ring ever.

People are not tougher than buffalo.

We might have learned a lot about saving lives of those inflicted with/by mortal wounds though.

I forget what the statistics are in battle but I think it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 90% saved.  That is centerfire rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2012 at 22:38
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Interesting article. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2012 at 00:37
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Anybody watch "Cowboys and Aliens", as far as stopping power Speilberg showed in a graphic fashion the differences between a heavy caliber, i.e. Sharps versus the pistol calibers (even when fired from rifles).
They were shooting big, heavy aliens and the he set it up so that the large rifle calibers worked much better than the pistol calibers.
A pistol is a poor substitute for a rifle and in many shootings is used an ambush weapon.
We had a shooting last Saturday in which a guy trying to stop some bad guys from hurting two women was shot in the face and neck at point blank range, cut an artery and it was all over.
He was unarmed.
Art
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2012 at 20:42
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Something a brit friend of mine who has hunted and killed humans on 5 continents pointed out, a bit of factual history rather than theory;  A guy with the initials AH in the late 1930's through the mid 1940's killed half of europe using the 9mm parabellum cartridge.
It just comes down to where you put it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2012 at 06:50
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I have read this data before and it's pretty interesting.  The only real way to stop someone instantly is to destroy the central nervous system.  A massive blood loss will sometimes do it as well but nothing like taking out the CNS.  Shot placement with a cartridge that has the ability to penetrate to the necessary vital area every time is what it takes. 
For the other factors it really depends on the persons state of mind.  Whether they are on some sort of drug or not or even if they are determined to survive the fight.  All those things have to be taken into consideration as well.  There are numerous reports of where people give up and die from a single non fatal gunshot.  And then there are those who have it in their mind that they are not going to give up until the last drop of blood leaves their body. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2012 at 10:25
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:



I forget what the statistics are in battle but I think it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 90% saved.  That is centerfire rifle.


not arguing, just pointing out that in modern warfare, 99% of the center-fire rifle bullets fired are FMJ, designed specifically to remain intact and have very little expansion.  you can't compare a 150gr FMJ 7.62Nato round to a 150gr Nosler Partition .308, the terminal ballistics are completely different.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2012 at 10:31
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Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

Something a brit friend of mine who has hunted and killed humans on 5 continents pointed out, a bit of factual history rather than theory;  A guy with the initials AH in the late 1930's through the mid 1940's killed half of europe using the 9mm parabellum cartridge.
It just comes down to where you put it.


i understand your point, but that's a very simplistic view of the casualties of WWII.  the vast majority of the (non-carbine) rifles and machine guns fired the 7.92×57mm Mauser round, and i daresay their snipers and mg-42's killed far more troops than the luger pistol. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2012 at 12:11
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Of course, (most) centerfire rifles have much greater power than handguns but that doesn't mean a handgun won't suffice in many instances. As an example, a .45 Colt 260gr Keith- style bullet @ 1000fps are known to shoot through a mule deer from end to end at 100 yds. and cut a big hole all the way through.
That'll do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2012 at 00:00
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"What matters even more than caliber is shot placement. Across all calibers, if you break down the incapacitations based on where the bullet hit you will see some useful information.Head shots = 75% immediate incapacitation
Torso shots = 41% immediate incapacitation
Extremity shots (arms and legs) = 14% immediate incapacitation.No matter which caliber you use, you have to hit something important in order to stop someone!"

 
Every self defense situations has its own unique set of variables. I like his closing statement, so in all reality situational awareness and extensive training with whatever caliber you choose will serve you well.
"Failing to prepare is preparing to fail" H.U Lee
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2012 at 09:04
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Since it was brought up again I will bring up the final and definitive FBI study on handgun effectiveness
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2012 at 11:21
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Break Dance10mm is great unless you miss...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2012 at 11:22
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Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:

Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

Something a brit friend of mine who has hunted and killed humans on 5 continents pointed out, a bit of factual history rather than theory;  A guy with the initials AH in the late 1930's through the mid 1940's killed half of europe using the 9mm parabellum cartridge.
It just comes down to where you put it.


i understand your point, but that's a very simplistic view of the casualties of WWII.  the vast majority of the (non-carbine) rifles and machine guns fired the 7.92×57mm Mauser round, and i daresay their snipers and mg-42's killed far more troops than the luger pistol. 
 
I don't think he is talking about troops.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2012 at 15:33
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Originally posted by STONE STONE wrote:

Break Dance10mm is great unless you miss...
Which I'd be more likely to do. I'll stick with the .40 Short & Weak...still better than a 9.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/23/2012 at 17:12
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Given the effectiveness of the new bullet designs in 9mm, .40 and .45 they are all very close in effectiveness.
Many real deal, high speed/low drag folks are moving or have moved to the 9mm because practice ammo is cheaper, magazine capacity higher and recoil impulse lower, less stress on arm, wrist and hand.
10mm has a higher recoil impulse making it harder to get back on target and follow up with repeat shots and it will hurt your arm, wrist and hand much more quickly...if you doubt this, fire a thousand rounds per week for forty weeks and then tell me how your joints feel.
The 10mm and .40 are better critter killers than the 9mm, however neither is optimum compared to say a .44mag or .500 S&W.
I carry a .40 with 180 grn. fmj as a lightweight woods gun..I have no illusions about "stopping power".
For those who look down on the 9mm I suggest you talk to Pat Rogers, Scott Reitz and others who use it and have been there and done that..these are real deal gunfighters and they have no qualms about using a 9mm with quality ammo.
Art
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