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Another 1000 yard question

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2007 at 10:40
Tulie View Drop Down
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I would like to set up a heavy barrel rifle in 243 for 1000 yard shooting with 105 Amax bullets.  This will be a combo setup with some long range varmints mixed in, different bullet.  I currently have a 600 yard setup but am wanting to play out a little farther.

 

First as to money, I would like to get the most bang for my buck and really can't justify the higher doller scopes.  Let's say around 500 and down.  After all I'm just getting into it and want to learn and have fun before getting head over heels! 

 

I've never shot fixed powers before and believe the variables to be more versatile for what I'm trying to do.  Is this most others opinion as well or does a fixed 10 or even 16 do what I'm wanting to do as well as the variables?   Is a fixed 10 enough for "okay" eyes at 1000 yards?  The paper targets will be 1000 yard targets, if I use it at 600 we have 3' targets currently and obviously varmints range in all sizes.

 

Next, I like the mil dot and have shot them and the ballistic plex quite a bit and currently have a 6x18 with the Nikon BDC.  I like the mil dot option for windage but not having shot at 1000 yards except for fun I'm assuming the mil dot is the way to go?

 

Thus, looking at my options what are the opionions and expertise out there?  Nikon, Super Sniper, Burris??  Powers? Objective?  Any other plus or minus to consider.  Weight isn't going to be a major factor and doubt 50mm is really needed.  Oh, and I don't have 30mm rings so if that is a consideration, who to go with there?

 

Thanks,

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2007 at 14:19
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Welcome to The OT.

 

I was already to recommend a Super Sniper until I saw the varmint requirement.

 

You will need to "click" your shots that far out. I'd recommend a variable scope with target turrets.

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-9847-185-bushnell-6-24x50-elite-4200- 30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

(Probably want to get a canted base of some sort. I'm not sure how much "up" this scope has.)

Also has a 30mm tube.

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-1894-220-nikon-6-18x40-buckmaster-rif lescope.aspx

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-9138-218-nikon-65-20x44-monarch-ucc-r iflescope.aspx

(I know, I know...it's got a lit reticle!!! Hell of a scope AND a bargain none the less!!)   

 

Anything look intriguing??

 

All the above scopes will "probably" require a canted base of 20 MOA or so. 

 



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2007 at 14:57
Tulie View Drop Down
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Thanks for the response and info.  Yeah, I thought hard and still am tempted on the SS but just not sure the fixed works for this application and also not wild about new rings for the 30mm tube.  I looked at that Elite and it does look good but doesn't have much internal adjustment and not sure the dots would make up for that.  I have one of the Nikon's and really like it.  As a matter of fact that's what's on the potential rifle right now.  If it stays there then I might need to get something for the 600 yard setup instead of the duplex 4x14 that's on it.  Really hard to beat those Nikon's these days they seem to have come back on the quality and the bang for the buck is sure there.

 

Thanks again,

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2007 at 15:01
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Everybody needs at least 1 Super Sniper!!   

My 10x SS is just plain silly. "Set it and forget it!!"

 

That 6.5-20x Monarch is HARD to beat. It seems to match your shooting needs to boot.

I actually had that scope on a .308. You'll still need some up though.

 

Best of luck!! Keep us informed. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2007 at 18:42
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I have one of the 6.5-20 Monarch on a 25 moa picatinney rail it`s a good clear scope and like CT said you will need that 20 or 25 moa rail with it. It does not have that much internal adjustment to shoot that far out. Another choice would be the Bushnell 6-24  in the 4200 series tactical has a mil-dot it a little over $500. You May want to call SWFA to see what is available and if the new Nikon is out now,  that is 1-972-SCOPE-IT (726-7348) I have used my Nikon on a 22-250 and on a 243 wssm with satisfactory results.  ( don`t know why the type face changed ?? )

 

Duce 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/31/2007 at 21:21
Tulie View Drop Down
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From all I've heard the Monarch and the 4200 have sure been getting a lot of good results.  I know I could move up to a Leupold but don't want to drop the bucks into one right now.  Kinda like putting a 1000 dollar saddle on a 500 dollar horse. 

 

The SS still intrigues me but for this application I don't think it fits.  For the 1000 yard range though would the 10 be too little magnification?  Would the 16 power fit better and still be okay for hunting?  I know that's a wide open question as everybody is different but to me the 20 is probably the best fit but would work only for that 1000 yard application. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/01/2007 at 08:03
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For strictly LR target shooting, I'd go with the 16x or 20x.

 

Mirage when it is hot is going to be a bitch with the 20x, but others have done and are shooting with them.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/01/2007 at 10:26
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I live in southern NM and mirage is a daily issue even in the winter.  I do agree though, shooting through it isn' much fun.  I'm trying to stay below 500 bucks for this setup and if it works out will probably do it right on the next one.  This rifle is an okay long range shooter but nothing to be overly excited about. 

 

After thinking on it more I am more conviced one of the SS is the way to go for the money and for the responses but deciding on 16 or 20 will be the issue.  The 16 probably could work for a dual purpose but the 20 would be awfully tough and as you said, the mirage might make me wish for something else a lot of the time. 

 

Another question, rings?  I know you can spend as much as you want but are Warne worth the time and effort or just go with one of the "better" and more expensive setups.  Sometimes you get what you pay for and sometimes you pay for the name and not performance.  Since I'm putting this on a Ruger 77 with the integral bases I'm sort of limited in my options.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/01/2007 at 10:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/02/2007 at 11:00
Tulie View Drop Down
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Well I didn't find the Leupold rings for the integral Ruger bases but probably just need to spend more time investigating.  Warne makes them but didn't know how their quality compared.  I use to the Burris rings, both Zee and Signature for the Weaver bases. 

 

I'm pretty much convinced on the SS so will find a good set of rings and make my up feeble mind as to which power to go with.  However, with all the talk coming out about a variable in the future I might wait for that and see if I can actually have the best of all worlds!

 

Thanks for the help.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/02/2007 at 12:43
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Warne stuff is good to go.

 

Good shooting!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2007 at 11:51
Duce View Drop Down
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The 243 you mentioned is this a standard 243 or a benchrest 6mm ppc  a 1000 yards is a long shot for the standard 243. CT is right the Warne rings are good I have a couple pair that have worked flawlessly. Are you shooting handloads or factory ammo?

 

Good shooting

 

Duce

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2007 at 10:28
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The .243 Winchester is a better cartridge for 1000 yard shooting than a 6PPC. The 6PPC is "The King" at 100, 200, & possibly 300 yard benchrest. The 6PPC is designed to shoot lighter bullets. The .243 Win., shooting high BC pills of 105 gr. & up, can be competitive at 1000 yards. Now the 6BR Norma, while not having the powder capacity of the .243 Win., but slightly more powder capacity than the 6PPC, can hold its own with a 1 in 8" twist bbl. and 105 gr. and heavier bullets on a very calm, windless day at 1000 yards. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/10/2007 at 12:17
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with a BC around .55 a 6 mm will hang with anything at 1000 -- and beyond. 6mm x 45, .244 or .243 but as blackbird points out you gotta have the twist rate. even v-max 87 gr. do pretty well with a bc of .45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2007 at 22:08
Tulie View Drop Down
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The 243 that I currently have is a 1:9.25 twist and has a medium heavy barrel, heavy "target" laminated stock and a two stage target trigger.  It will stabelize 105 Amax bullets at my elevation but just barely.  I've been bouncing around the idea of shooting out the barrel and going with a new barrel or maybe just getting a new setup on a Rem 700 action.  Not sure what to build it for just yet.  If I go with a new one it will be dedicated to targets and might take this and do the same.  I've not shot this one at 1000 but at 600 it does good to very good but not excellent. 

 

I know when the wind is calm a 243 is a fine 1000 yard setup but when the wind blows the shooter better know how to handle it.  My concern on scopes is a fixed power vs. a variable.  I'm in NM and it does get a tad warm here at times.  Mirage is a concern even during cooler mornings and days a good part of the year.  I'm pretty sold on a mil dot type reticle, thinking hard on the SS probably 16X but wish they would get the variables available.  I currently have a Nikon Buckmaster 6x18 BDC on the rifle and it does okay although I'm not loving the really thick crosshairs.

 

One other thing to answer, it is handloads, using lapua brass and getting close to 2900 fps with the 105 right now.  Probably could push that a tad bit but not a whole lot with this rifle.  The Warne ring thing was to allow for a 30 mm tube on a SS but I may wish for a better base and ring system some day.  I figure to go with high rings with the expectation of replacing the barrel in the not too distant future.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2007 at 13:26
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wind in the west is not like wind in the east in long range shooting (never constant and always blowing in west). wt. of bullet and bore diameter are not factors in long range shooting, lack of time of flight is the main concern. thus ballistic coefficient and launch velocity are all that matters. reading the wind with a 6 with a .455 bc started at 3000 fps is not different than a 308 with a bc .455 started at 3000fps.

why not try a 1x7 6x47???

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2007 at 14:45
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Well to be honest, I'm being tight and already have this rifle in hand and want to check it out and possibly put a new barrel on it before jumping into a new game.  If I do go with a new one I would consider the 6x47 as it has some good things being said about it.  A buddy of mine is setting up a 6BR after playing with a 308 and 6.5-284 for a while and getting tired of running in circles and burning up barrels with each of them.  The Amax 105 has a BC in the neighborhood of .5 so it should do good there but the heavier bullets might not be pushed so much by wind.  In most of the areas here for the longer range matches you will be shooting in the foothills to actually in the mountains and the wind does blow and it does swirl so you are right on when saying doping the wind is a major factor but the 243 will do the job.  It may cost a bit more in barrel life but having one in hand lets me try some things out.

 

Back to the scope question, is a 16X SS the right scope for this rifle and this yardage?  I know only I can tell but not having tried it is tough to decide.  The variable is a good way to go but I'm not sure how much it will buy.  On a hot day turning down the power is a nice touch but on a usual day I think running around 16 is about as high as you are going to go anyway out here.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2007 at 08:50
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Let me ask one more question to add to the confusion or hopefully clear some of it up.  Is there a method to determine the amount of internal adjustment that might be needed when used with "standard" or "given" rings that will let you know the max range the scope is capable of adjusting for?  For example, an internal adjustment of 30 inches with "standard" rings or rings of a certain height will adjust out to XXXX yards.  I'm really trying to figure out if I have to go 30mm tube or if a 1 inch will work.  I know on most applications I can get target bases or rings to accommodate the needed adjustment but with my Ruger and integral bases it's not been that easy yet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2007 at 09:06
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First you would hane to know how much bullett drop you are going t have in a 1000 yards then decide if yor scope can compensate for that much drop.

 

Duce 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2007 at 12:31
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      To Tulie: I know that you are trying to shoot out at 1000 yds, but I did not hear any one minchen wheather you are using factory ammmo, or are you using your own reloads?

     I have been shooting for almost 20 years and the one thing that I have found out is that you may have the best equiment in the world and using factory ammo, you will not get the type of groups that you are looking for. the only way to get what you want other than good equiment is to reload... The reason I sat this is because I try and keep my groups whith in 3/4" at 500 to 600 yds. Under 500 yds I get up set if I do not keep my groups whith in 1/4" or smaller.   Untell I started to reload I was not able to do this. Even whith the best ammo that I could by. If you have not startef to reloads your own ammo the biggest pice of advice that I can give you is to read up on it. I do have a rifel that gets One hole five shot groups at 100 yds whith my reloads, the best I could get whith factory ammo whith this rifel at the same distence is 1/2" groups. The only thing that makes this rifel misprform is the human eliment. You may be thinking what in the hell type of rifel does this guy have, well I will tell you it is a standared Remtion  model 700 30.06. it has all stock equiment. the only thing that has ben done to it it the action has ben tytened up , the trigger has ben ajusted to 3/4 lbs and the beral has ben free floted. That is the only thing that has ben done o this rifel othe than using my own reloads. I cant tell you what they ary because of the lyibility ishiues. all I am saying is that reloading is an other avanue to look at.

 

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