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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 23:23
tbone1 View Drop Down
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Well, I booked my first African Safari this past week and I will be taking just one rifle, a Winchester super grade 300 WSM.  I have been reading several books lately regarding bullet selection.  Terry Weilands book "Dangerous Game Rifles" had alot of good info on bullet selection but it was geared more for the bigger rifles.  I am not satisfied with the performance that I have been getting from my current bullets and I wanted to hear some opinions from you guys.  I will be using a 180 grain around 3000 fps.  The largest animals that I will be taking are Kudu and Zebra.  I am considering Federal trophy bonded bear claw Accubond and Nosler Partition, Winchester Accubond or XP3, and   Remington Scirocco II.  I am leaning toward the Federal Bear Claw, Win Accubond and XP3.  What do you guys think.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 08:07
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bear claw  barnes tsx swift a frame.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 15:33
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Tbone Zebra can be quite tough on your ammo i'd say the same as Pyro, if you can get them to group well in your rifle. Where in Africa are you going and what do you intend to hunt? If all your hunting is going to be in the bush, you don't need a WSM. average shots are around 50m or less in the bushveld.

 

Chris

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 16:13
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i thought of  more to add woodleigh weldcore or solid also a square makes a damn tough bullet too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2007 at 08:35
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Congrats on your trip!  Sounds amazing.

 

What kind of scope will you be mounting atop your rifle?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2007 at 12:08
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Tbone I do'nt know if you plan on having any of your animals, sent to the taxidermist. If you are and you shoot a Zebra, look at a shoulder mount. It's a much better way to show a Zebra off, when compared to the traditional rug on the floor or wall. That most people seem to do, I think you will be more than pleased with the results. And you can use the rest off the skin for something else (bar stools look nice in zebra skin)

 

Chris

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2007 at 12:27
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Originally posted by tbone1 tbone1 wrote:

Well, I booked my first African Safari this past week and I will be taking just one rifle, a Winchester super grade 300 WSM.   I am considering Federal trophy bonded bear claw Accubond and Nosler Partition, Winchester Accubond or XP3, and   Remington Scirocco II.  I am leaning toward the Federal Bear Claw, Win Accubond and XP3.  What do you guys think.

TB's and NP's are always a good call. I haven't used the XP3. Let us know how those bullets hold up if the shots are close. I think I would take the TB if they are.

Also

I think I could have a cold one on that perch

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2007 at 13:06
tbone1 View Drop Down
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Celonc, I will be taking my Winchester Super Grade 300WSM with a S&B 3-12x42.  I love the rifle.  It shoots very well and fits me pefect.  Will we be hunting 3 separate large areas of about 100,000 thousands each, so there terrain will vary considerably from area to area as I understand it.

 

Glock, interesting idea, I'll look in to that.

 

I want the bullet to mushroom but not come apart.  I like the idea of the TB bear claws but I read in Terry Weilands book that when Federal bought the company from Jack Carter, they eventually switched to making the jackets out of guilding metal instead of pure copper to reduce cost.  The result is that the bullets aren't holding up nearly as well as they in the orginal design.  According to Federal they are either working on the problem or have corrected the problem.  If it has been corrected then I would have no problem using it.  I am considering the XP3.  Winchester loads have always been very accurate in my rifles and I like the non deforming polycarbonate tip.  However, they are so new, I am not sure that I trust them yet.  I don't want nor need a solid because I want the bullet to mushroom and I won't be hunting anything dangerous on this trip.  As I said, Kudu and Zebra will be the largest.  My buddy will be going for Eland.  It should be exciting.

 

I am looking at the Barnes bullets but I really need to read more about them.  I have a little hesitation about the triple shock in a 300WSM.  Copper is lighter than lead so if I want a 180 grain (which I do) then the bullets will be longer than a normal lead bullet.  A 300WSM case has very little room already (thats why they don't offer 200gr in 300WSM).  That means the bullet would have to stick out further which may or may not be a problem depending on my rifle.  Overall, It's something that I don't want to have to worry about.  The MRX looks good though and I will be giving it a close look.  The design looks similar to the XP3. 

 

With any bullet, my concerns are how reliable will it expand at the velocites that I am shooting, and I don't want it coming apart if it hits bone on a close shot.

Thanks for the help guys.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2007 at 13:25
tahqua View Drop Down
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Originally posted by tbone1 tbone1 wrote:

I am looking at the Barnes bullets but I really need to read more about them.  I have a little hesitation about the triple shock in a 300WSM.  Copper is lighter than lead so if I want a 180 grain (which I do) then the bullets will be longer than a normal lead bullet.  A 300WSM case has very little room already (thats why they don't offer 200gr in 300WSM).  That means the bullet would have to stick out further which may or may not be a problem depending on my rifle.  Overall, It's something that I don't want to have to worry about.  The MRX looks good though and I will be giving it a close look.  The design looks similar to the XP3. 

 

With any bullet, my concerns are how reliable will it expand at the velocites that I am shooting, and I don't want it coming apart if it hits bone on a close shot.

Thanks for the help guys.

 Good call, don't forget that you may end up seating it deeper for the shorter gun. That raises pressures and needs to be watched, too.

 Also, the NP is still a standard by which all premium bullets are compared.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2007 at 01:28
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I'm not concerned about the TSX/MRX failing to penetrate but a slight concern that they could fail to expand.  I have heard of this happening although probably rare.  The MRX will be considered.  Thanks for the info.  What do you guys think of the Accubond?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2007 at 09:11
tahqua View Drop Down
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Interesting to find this at pheasant country, but talk of shedding shrapnel along the way?

 http://www.pheasantcountry.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1048

Reviews from hunters and shooters-

http://www.reloadersnest.com/review_result.asp?Bullet=Nosler %20AccuBond

I have never used any of the solid copper bullets. I have hunted with friends that did and penetration was good whether from the Winchester or the Barnes X. Expansion wasn't a whole lot, weight retention was. The new TSX is supposed to expand.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2007 at 11:05
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I didn't mean to imply that the Win and X didn't expand. They didn't expand like the NP's and Sierra bullets. All these shots were from 30.06 at moose and black bear, by the way. These hunters continue to use those bullets.

I guess their initial temptation at comparing expansion of recovered bullets was tempered by the fact that they are pile drivers.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2007 at 15:31
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Here is the web address of a South African company called Rhino Bullets www.rhinobullets.co.za. They make a bullet along the lines of the TB, i've been using them in my 243 WIN good penetration and expansion. They are not the prettiest bullet to look at, but they work and that's what counts right. Couple of friends have used them as well, and couldnt be happier. They even make a 350gr and a 380gr for the 375, no that's not a misprint. And according to the web site their products are available in the USA, thought you guys might want to have a look. Don't know what they cost in the USA, but it could be an alternative to the other premium graders

 

Chris

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2007 at 23:38
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Tbone, Just ask your outfitter what ammo he would prefer you to use. He will tell you what works best!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2007 at 12:44
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My PH was really upset when he found out that I would be shooting a 140 gr. bullet, he lectured and ridiculed me for about 10 minutes on how you should never come to Africa with anything less than 180 gr.  I asked him a few questions about sectional density and ballistic coefficient and could tell that he was not very knowledgeable, so I politely apologized for bringing a substandard caliber.

 

We did a lot of tracking and spotting on foot and several times we were in range and he would not let me shoot, citing that my caliber would not do the job at those ranges.  I'm not accustomed to someone telling me when to shoot and when not to shoot but his telling not to shoot saved my life the day before so I continued to do as he instructed.

 

I can tell you that the Zebra were by far the most difficult animals to get.  Where we were hunting lives the most beautiful species of zebra, called mountain zebra.  Their stripes go all the way down their legs and they do not have brown or grey stripes (just black).  Anyway these zebra have some major radar and other animals hang out with them because of it.  When I took my first stallion, my PH was telling me how hardy they are and how they don't ever go down on the first shot, so I needed to keep shooting even if the first shot was good.  We left the trackers on a hill top in distance because you just can't hunt successfully with more than two people.  They were watching the whole thing unfold and were prepared to watch the zebra after the shot.  We got within a range that he felt comfortable letting me shoot and the zebra took off quartering away and after chasing these guys for days I was ready to sling lead.  I shot in his shoulder area and the zebra went right down.  The PH was shocked; the trackers were so impressed they all wanted to shake my hand.  They don't speak English but my PH told me that they had never seen such a sight.  After the autopsy, they concluded that the bullet entered behind the shoulder passed up his neck and exited between his eyes.

 

My PH could not ask me enough questions about my caliber and bullet after this.  I was his new hero now.  A few more animals went down without incident and his confidence grew.

 

I really wanted a Kudu but we just hadn't seen any until one day we were resting under a shade tree and a nice kudu ran right past us and over a hill.  I grabbed my rifle and we took off running and about an hour later we spotted him.  He had ran over a rocky hill and positioned himself under a shade tree looking back at the hill he just ran over, the same hill we would have to crest in pursuit of him.  My PH knew he would be in the valley looking back, so we crawled slowly to the crest and peeked between some rocks and spotted him.  He was between 300 and 400 yards away.  You'll never guess what my PH said next.

 

"Chris, normally I would not allow my client to take this shot, but because of your caliber I feel confident".   The kudu never turned, he just kept looking right at us, so I put the bullet right in his chest and down he went.  This was the only animal we were able to recover a bullet from and here it is.

 

6.5 STW 140 grain Swift A-Frame

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2007 at 13:12
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Great post Chris, very exiting testimonial on african hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2007 at 16:41
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I have used 130g triple shock on several Ga deer in a savage tatical 300wsm and had great success.They will pentrate anything.They also group very well in my gun about 3400fps.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2007 at 10:55
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Tbone, Superior Ammo loads several of the bullets mentioned here. I have a friend who uses their ammunition and he swears by it.

http://www.superiorammo.com/index.html

I would contact them and be interested in hearing what they have to say. If you're going to Africa, the cost of their ammo is peanuts. Losing an animal is never an option.

 



Edited by tahqua
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2007 at 13:08
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Superior Amunition is who loads all of my 6.5 STW and 6.5x284, they are tops in my book.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2007 at 18:47
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I live and hunt in South Africa. My foremost piece of advice would be to use the heaviest bullet you and your rifle are confortable with. With correct shot placement allmost any calibre and bullet weight will do, but it is that one shot that do not find the vitals, that will make you regret that you did not go for something heavier.

I use a 300H&H sako with 200gr Hornady or Sierra Gameking. A lot of hunters in South Africa use Barnes X and only praise them.

And below is the proof in the pudding!

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/02/2010 at 18:07
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This sounds like an awesome trip. I would make sure you have all of the necessary supplies for <a href=doublepranch.com>pheasant hunting</a>.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/02/2010 at 20:13
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Awesome trip!

I enthusiastically recommend barnes TSX for your plans.  Barnes has slow motion video of their bullets opening on a tomato, so don't worry about expansion.  I've killed bull elk with 140 grain .277 Barnes TSX and had great success.

I have also had great luck with Nosler Accubonds.  I had my 300 WSM shooting the 200 grain accubond without issues.  Sorry, I don't know where that recipe is now.

Enjoy that adventure!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2010 at 06:34
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um, are you guys aware this is a thread from 2007?Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2010 at 11:03
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richeybpaul1 does not care as his post was just spam as evidenced by his link fail and lack of relevance to the original thread.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2010 at 11:54
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Well I guess without the idiot spammer I would never have read about your africa trip. A 6.5 STW would be be spectacular for the longer shots and with a tough enough bullet (such as the A-FrameWink) would drill deep.

I also got a few second glances on my africa trip when I told my PH I was using 130gr projectiles in my .308. 

Bullets, rifles and components have come such a long way that some of the dogmatic beliefs about africa hunting no longer apply iMHO. A good bullet in the right place trumps much.

Rath
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