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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 13:18
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does anybody here think there is any reason a person couldnt go to africa with a .375H&H and take everything that walks there, besides elephant, rhino and hippo?? lion, leopard, cap buffalo etc. etc.... would be targets of choice
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 13:41
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Where are you 8shots 'cause my opinion and $1 wouldn't get you a cup of coffee.
 
But since you asked, should be fine for all the plains antelopes and cats.  Often heard a bit light for buff if other choices available.  Course your PH is there to bail your a$$ out.
 
Right Wouter????


Edited by Dogger - March/11/2009 at 13:42
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 13:43
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.375 H&H has been, for some time, been "rated" for the African "Big 5" Elephant, Rhino, Cape Buffalo, Lion, and Leopard.  However, remember that Mr. Lott created the .458 Lott because a Cape Buffalo he shot with a .458 Win Mag almost killed him.  He created the Lott shortly after recovering from being tossed around... according to the info I have been able to collect on it.  375 H&H is, I think considered a "minimum" for the Big 5, but I don't think I would be reluctant to use it on anything but a charging hippo.  8shots would be the man to ask though... he's there, he encounters the stuff all the time. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 13:43
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well im just curious, some day i want to go, but im not real intrested in elephant or rhino or hippo, but i would entertain the rest of the game there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 14:21
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With the right 375 bullet and with good shot placement,,,...then why not??
 
With the right bullet and placement the 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, RUM and the 375 and 378 Wbys will down any African game including rhinos and elephants.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 14:22
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

well im just curious, some day i want to go, but im not real intrested in elephant or rhino or hippo, but i would entertain the rest of the game there.
............Oh yeah!! Someday you`ll need to diversify away from Minn deer to larger game with that 375........Laugh
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 14:23
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i think i would take either my .264win mag or my .300win mag along too, they say a lot of the plains game is easily taken with stuff you would use to shoot deer with here as long as you place your shots well and use a sturdy bullet. at least thats what boddington says.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 14:25
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

.375 H&H has been, for some time, been "rated" for the African "Big 5" Elephant, Rhino, Cape Buffalo, Lion, and Leopard.  However, remember that Mr. Lott created the .458 Lott because a Cape Buffalo he shot with a .458 Win Mag almost killed him.  He created the Lott shortly after recovering from being tossed around... according to the info I have been able to collect on it.  375 H&H is, I think considered a "minimum" for the Big 5, but I don't think I would be reluctant to use it on anything but a charging hippo.  8shots would be the man to ask though... he's there, he encounters the stuff all the time. 
i know he uses a 300H&H for a lot of his work, but i cant recall him shooting any of the big 5 ( at least that he posted here)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2009 at 17:51
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I don't recall him ever mentioning Big 5, but he IS THERE all the time...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 02:24
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The 375H&H is the minimum cal allowed for the big Five. Having said that I would take all but the elephant with a 375. The problem with the 375 is that it is "too much" gun for the smaller antelope such as kudu downwards, particularly in more open country where longer shots are required.
If one comes on a one-off safari and wish too bring only one firearm, then the 375 must be high on the list as the caliber of choice.
I allways say that if you are going to shoot one or two of anything, then you normally have the opportunity for ideal conditions and shot placement. It is when you shoot more animals as in annual hunts etc that statistically shot placement becomes more erratic and the chances of wounding etc increases.
That is where the bigger cal plays a vital role and why the proffesionals carry them.
So this is one of those discussions with many correct answers.
In South Africa the guys purchase the 375 H&H for a once off buffalo or eland hunt. They then use the same rifle on bushveld or closer range hunting, only because they now have it and must use it. For elephant and lion they move to the bigger cal, but it is often because they have the money to spend and it is nice to have.
I personally would go for a 300WinMag (or the 300H&H) for mid size animals such as kudu, eland, zebra etc and a 458 Win or Lott for the buffalo and upwards, if I had a choice. Leopard is not tough and a 300 WinMag more then enough.
Like allways, shot placement above caliber.
 
I am sorry to say that I have not hunted the big five myself, so the above comes from having hunted with guys who carry a 375 H&H on our normal hunts and listening to my friend who is a proffesional safari outfitter in South Africa. The big five remains an expensive exercise, one that my budget does not permit. I would love to hunt a buffalo. The cats have never interested me, as I eat what I shoot. Elephant is also not high on my agenda, but I am sure that would change once confronted with the opportunity to hunt one. A typical kudu or other medium size game cost about $275, whilst a buffalo would set one back about $1200. Lion $2000, leopard $1000 and elephant $12 000.Rhino $30 000 +


Edited by 8shots - March/12/2009 at 04:15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 07:24
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thanks for the info.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 08:24
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I, myself, would go with a bigger gun for Cape Buffalo.  Rhino, elephant, too, of course.  But a 375 will flatten everything else in that continent......[ we're not talking about hippos...]. 
 
The most popular round in Africa for plains game is the 30-06.  I used a 300 Win Mag.  To me, that is perfect for antelope.  For bigger, nasty game I would buy me a big gun to play with.....like a 404 Jeffrey or a 416 Something.....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 08:26
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Heh Pyro6999 I know quite a few guys who use their 375 H&H to hunt everything from small game to large game here in South Africa. Including 300m shots on larger game, even seen a freind shoot Springbuck with his 375. Although the meat damage was quite high, and he put 2 down with 1 shot(says he didnt shoot into the herd). Meat damage is not a problem if you are just hunting for Trophy's, as you dont get to take the meat any way.
I agree with 8shots that something a bit  bigger is prefable for Elephant. But it is not to say that you couldnt use a 375 on Elephant with great sucsess, I think your bullet choice is more important. than whether you bring a 375 or 458.
Also the fact that our local Ammunition manufacturer (PMP) is now loading Swift A Frames into their Elite line of Ammo, in 375 H&H, 300 WIN, 30-06 and 308 Win. Makes the 375 a good choice to bring, If you have to buy some ammo here, for any reason.
 
Regards Chris
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 08:34
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Hi there Glock. I have not seen you on the forum for a while. Trust all is going well.
 
Choice of caliber will never have a straightforward answer, I am afraid. So in a nutshell, with proper bullet selection and good bullet placement, yes you can flatten everything on the African continent. Elephant would probably be the most tricky shot though and I would watch you from afar whilst sitting in a solid tall tree!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 08:46
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Heh 8shots i'm great thanks, been reading alot of posts just not posting anything.
 
Actually Elephant arn't on my wish list, but id be sitting in the tree with you. I'm not that fast with this new wheelchair. Need to look for a jet motor or something.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 10:10
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The .375 is plenty of gun for buffalo. It got the reputation for not being enough when bullets weren't very good, even some solids, and that wasn't all that long ago. I have not only used the .375 on buffalo myself, but seen it used by other hunters. The PH I have hunted with more than any, Kevin Thomas, even prefers the .375 when backing up his clients, reserving his .458 Lott for guiding elephant hunters.

In fact one problem that can occur with the .375 today that almost never used to happen is over-penetration, even with expanding bullets. This means the bullet can og through the buffalo and hit another on the opposite side. This happens quite easily with the 300-grain TSX, one reason some PH's advise using the 270-grain TSX, which also turns the .375 into a reasonably flat-shooting plains game rifle.
 
The .375 is not the legal minimum for dangerous game in all of Africa. Severla places allow 9.3's of one sort or another.
 
I have also found that the .375 is not too much for any sort of plains game, having used ne to take dozens of head of smaller stuff from springbok up through the 500-700 pound animals.
 
In fact most PH's would rather see a .375 H&H come out of a buffalo client's gun case than anything bigger because they then know that the client is likely to shoot straight, and the majority of people who bring bigger rifles flinch to a greater or lesser degree. Of course you and I don't, but the majority of people do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 10:15
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Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

The .375 is plenty of gun for buffalo. It got the reputation for not being enough when bullets weren't very good, even some solids, and that wasn't all that long ago. I have not only used the .375 on buffalo myself, but seen it used by other hunters. The PH I have hunted with more than any, Kevin Thomas, even prefers the .375 when backing up his clients, reserving his .458 Lott for guiding elephant hunters.

In fact one problem that can occur with the .375 today that almost never used to happen is over-penetration, even with expanding bullets. This means the bullet can og through the buffalo and hit another on the opposite side. This happens quite easily with the 300-grain TSX, one reason some PH's advise using the 270-grain TSX, which also turns the .375 into a reasonably flat-shooting plains game rifle.
 
The .375 is not the legal minimum for dangerous game in all of Africa. Severla places allow 9.3's of one sort or another.
 
I have also found that the .375 is not too much for any sort of plains game, having used ne to take dozens of head of smaller stuff from springbok up through the 500-700 pound animals.
 
In fact most PH's would rather see a .375 H&H come out of a buffalo client's gun case than anything bigger because they then know that the client is likely to shoot straight, and the majority of people who bring bigger rifles flinch to a greater or lesser degree. Of course you and I don't, but the majority of people do.

good stuff jb thank you for your insight, now if i can just persuade my dad to take the time to go with me sometime, obviously this isnt a trip that would happen overnight and i wanna start working on it now and get my duckies in a row.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 13:04
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Good info John, have to agree with your comments. I have a few friends who use theirs for everything (except the big 5). Not many opportunity’s for us poor working class to hunt the big stuff, so it's nice to hear from someone who has.

I think if you only bring 1 gun to Africa it has to be a 375 H&H, although if i had to buy a larger caliber it would probably a 9.3 x 62. Prefer to shoot more accurate than worry about recoil, and with the TSX you dont have to worry about your bullet construction 
 
Regards Chris
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 ALRIGHT Glock,your my kinda guy! I just got a 9.3x62 put together. It's gotten popular in the States the past few years but John didn't have a thing to do with it.    Roll Eyes
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 14:02
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Another fine African caliber! I have used the 9.3x62 over there too, though not on buffalo. It really works on the larger plains game, though, and of the smaller ones as well.
 
But I must admit that on my first trip to Africa I took a .375, even though I was only going to be hunting plains game, because it's the African cartridge. It worked very well, of course, and I found out why many PH's prefer its use in thick thornbush, even when just hunting plains game.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 15:04
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Originally posted by Glock Glock wrote:

Also the fact that our local Ammunition manufacturer (PMP) is now loading Swift A Frames into their Elite line of Ammo, in 375 H&H, 300 WIN, 30-06 and 308 Win.


I know that the .375 H&H is long been a standard and is like our .270, .30-06 etc., but have you seen some of the newer calibers starting to show up like the .375 Ruger?  Would hate to go half way around the world to find out they don't have your particular brand if something happened to your ammo.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2009 at 19:20
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Originally posted by SD Dog SD Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Glock Glock wrote:

Also the fact that our local Ammunition manufacturer (PMP) is now loading Swift A Frames into their Elite line of Ammo, in 375 H&H, 300 WIN, 30-06 and 308 Win.


I know that the .375 H&H is long been a standard and is like our .270, .30-06 etc., but have you seen some of the newer calibers starting to show up like the .375 Ruger?  Would hate to go half way around the world to find out they don't have your particular brand if something happened to your ammo.
......................This is according to Hornady when I talked with their sales dept.
 
Hornady has and does have an on-going world-wide marketing program, in which their factory ammo including the 375 Ruger,  their other Nitro Express cartridges and the newer 416 Ruger, will eventually be distributed world wide. They already have received some distribution permits for So African distribution. This is an on-going project and will take some time to complete.
 
I would venture a veeeeedy strong guess, that it is highly likely that within the next few years, there will be 375 Ruger ammo, as well as other Hornady offerings available in So Africa and in other parts of the world.  
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

does anybody here think there is any reason a person couldnt go to africa with a .375H&H and take everything that walks there, besides elephant, rhino and hippo?? lion, leopard, cap buffalo etc. etc.... would be targets of choice
 
If I were offered a free African hunt for elephant, rhino, hippo, or anything else, on the condition that I use a .375, I'd take it! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2009 at 02:03
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the 375Ruger is available in Cape Town, the agents Guns&Bows has one in stock. So ammo must also be available.
John, I fully agree  with your analysis of the 375H&H.
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Originally posted by pyro6999

 

 ALRIGHT Glock, you’re my kinda guy! I just got a 9.3x62 put together. It's gotten popular in the States the past few years but John didn't have a thing to do with it.   

 

 

Definitely my type of caliber, when all my hunting buddies say they want a 470 or bigger, I’ve always wanted a 9.3 x62. I'd rather have a well placed medium bore bullet in an animal than a larger bore one in the wrong place. Especially with the fantastic range of premium grade bullets on the market today.

PH we hunt with told us a story off an American disabled hunter, that came to hunt Elephant with a 600 Nitro. Anyway the guy shot quite well at the range, so off they went for an Elephant. Willem says they eventually found one, so it’s off the vehicle to closer. As they get closer they have to go up a bit of a hill, with the Elephant standing right at the top. So the tracker pushes the guy’s brakes on, and Willem tells him exactly where he wants him to shoot. The hunter makes the shot and as the Elephant starts to run Willem is screaming at this guy to shoot again, well the only sound he hears is this Elephant breaking bush. As he turns to give this guy a few choice Afrikaans swear words he notices that his client has disappeared, well he found him at the bottom of this hill. With the brakes on and the excessive recoil of a 600, it just downright knocked the stuffing out of him.

True or not I can’t say as I wasn’t there, but being in a wheelchair. I can tell you it’s downright funny; I kept picturing this guy rolling down this hill wondering which way his Elephant went. Recoil is definitely an issue with the wheelchair, with the brakes on and sitting on uneven ground. Been knocked backwards quite a few times, with bigger calibers. Never been knocked out though.

 

Originally posted by 8shots

 

the 375Ruger is available in Cape Town, the agents Guns&Bows has one in stock. So ammo must also be available.

John, I fully agree with your analysis of the 375H&H.

 

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