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Advice Needed on Two Scopes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 23:36
DonDavis View Drop Down
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I'm looking for a couple of scopes and am choosing from the following.
 
Scope choice 1
Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 or
Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42
 
Scope choice 2
Redfield Revolution 3-9x40 or
Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x40
 
My questions are
I already own a Zeiss Conquest, so I know it is a very good scope. Not seen or used the Nikon Monarch - is it better than the Zeiss ?
 
I have looked though a Redfield Revolution, and I must say that I was not impressed - not considering all the internet hype on this scope anyway. Just more Leupold over-rating from what I can see. However, I've never looked through a Nikon Buckmasters, so I don't know how it compares.
 
I appreciate that prices on my two pairs of options are not the same, but they are within 20%, and that is close enough for me. I am just interested in getting the best product from each comparison.
 
Input appreciated, thanks
 
PS
My gripe with Leupold - I have owned quite a few over the years, but I always find something better for the same price or less, and the Leupolds have all gone. If they put as much money into R&D, materials, and production technology as they do into marketing hype, then they might turn out a class leading product. I bought a Leupold spotting scope a few years ago and it was the worst piece of crap I've ever looked through.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 01:19
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Sounds like you pretty much know what to do on choice #1 if you are happy with your conquest. Posts here would generally indicate it is the choice over the Nikon. I don't own either however. As to the second pair I might suggest that you read the thread " Inexpensive Scope Comparison" in the members reviews done by Koshkin. It may cause you to change your mind completely and consider some other choices.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 02:53
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I would definitely go with the Conquest as your first pick, they are an all around superb scope for the money.  As a second choice i would take the Nikon Monarch, from what i have saw they are a  good scope for the money.  The redfield and buckmaster i would take last.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 05:29
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The Monarch is a nice scope, but Conquest is a step above it.  The other 2 scopes don't compare to either.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 09:15
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I would add a Vortex Diamondback 3x9x40 to your scope #2 choice.  Price is pretty close and IMO it's a better deal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 09:35
DonDavis View Drop Down
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Thanks for all the replies, I did not expect such a response so quickly.
 
I should have made clear that I was looking for two scopes. One for a 300 Mag and one for a 22 Mag (the cheaper option)
 
Looks like Nikon Monarch does not measure up to Zeiss Conquest.
 
I've not heard anything about Vortex - any history on the company ?
 
A friend let me look through his Konus spotting scope - very nice. Apparently they make cheap scopes too.
 
Thanks again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 09:44
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 I have a 3x12x42 Monarch and it is ok. I have since started buying Bushnell Elite 4200's and I like them a lot better. The Monarch dissapoints me when compared to the Bushnell's. The Zeiss would definately be my pick over nikon. Look into the Bushnell Elite series and you might be surprised at how good they are.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 10:07
DonDavis View Drop Down
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I have several 4200 and 3200 Bushnell Elite scopes, and would agree that they are great. The 4200 does not have fast focus - a disadvantage in my view. Also, they all have eye relief of just 3.3 inches.

Eye relief is a big issue with me because I have a neck injury and can't stretch to get a good sight picture. All my scopes are mounted as far back as they'll go. Eye relief is the first thing I look at on a scope, and I've reached the point where I look for 4", but realize that I must go down to 3.5" to include a good range of scopes. 5" or 6" would be good for me.
 
Needless to say, on my Elites I do not see a full field of view.
 
I think the Elite 6500 has longer eye relief, and I am considering the 2.5 - 16 for a 243 varmint rilfe.
 
The Zeiss Conquest is good in terms of eye relief - the only scope I have (except for a Bushnell Banner long eye relief model) where I see a full field.
 
Conquest 3-9x40 s a great value right now Big Smile
 
The Banner long eye relief scope (claimed 6", actually about 4.5) is an excellent value scope in terms of clarity BUT once the sun goes down it just whites out and is absolutely useless. Good scope for plinking in good light.
 
With my eye relief constraint, choices are limited !
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 11:45
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I have both the 3-9 Zeiss and the 2.5-10 Monarch. I like both of them. Each has its +s and - when compared together.
The Zeiss is slightly better in fine definition.
Zeiss reticle in the plex is finer in the center
Etched reticle may be better in low light
Zeiss warranty is better and usually faster
Zeiss has a much larger selection of reticles available.
Zeiss cost more.
 
The Nikon has a wider field of view
Reticle center is bolder. 
For some reason it seems faster for me to pick up on a snap shot. Probably from the field of view
The Nikon will focus better at close range, Under 25 yds, because of lower power available.
I like the feel of the turrets and ease to dial in on the Nikon over the Conquest.
Nikon Warranty has been good,  but hit or miss in the past.
 
The Nikon 2.5-10's are mounted on  .17 HMR and on a .22 Mag.
Zeiss 3-9's are mounted on a CDL .243 and on a 700, 300 Win Mag.
 
If you can use a, Gloss SWFA has the Nikon 2.5-10 marked down to $299 at this time.
The Conquest is the better scope technically. Yet the added power range, wider field of view and lower price point levels the playing field and brings these 2 scopes in close contention to my eye. Both are good choices.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 12:14
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

The Monarch is a nice scope, but Conquest is a step above it.  The other 2 scopes don't compare to either.


+1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 12:28
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Nikon makes some slug gun and muzzle loader scopes with 5" eye relief. Probably the same glass as the buckmaster.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 13:56
DonDavis View Drop Down
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Thanks for the continuing info guys, this forum is a great resource. Great comparison 3 tens, that 299 deal is good too - not sure how a gloss scope will look on a matt rifle. Back in the good ol' days all scopes were glossy.
 
I still have 2 NIB Weaker K4 Steel-Lite II scopes from the early 80s. Not checked to see how they compare to modern scopes, but they were great in their day.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 14:44
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For a reasonably priced option for scope #2 to go with the .22 mag, I would probably go with either the Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9X40...
http://swfa.com/Bushnell-3-9x40-Elite-4200-Rifle-Scope-P6910.aspx
or the Vortex Viper 2-7X32...
http://swfa.com/Vortex-2-7x32-Viper-Rifle-Scope-P11227.aspx
or the Weaver 3-10X40 Grand Slam...
http://swfa.com/Weaver-3-10x40-Grand-Slam-Rifle-Scope-P591.aspx
or the Nikon Team Primos 3-9X40 (which is the previous generation Monarch).

Out of those, I think I would give the nod to the Vortex 2-7X32, as it seems like a good match for the .22 Mag to me, it is light and compact, it has nice optics, I like the C3 reticle, and it's reasonably priced.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 14:52
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2nd the 2-7 for the .22 mag.  I over scoped a .22lr with a 6-18.  It was good from the bench, but in actual use, it was not very user friendly.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 16:16
DonDavis View Drop Down
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I looked at the Nikon Omega 3-9x40 muzzleloader scope. 5" of eye relief is very attractive feature, but they offer it only with BDC reticle. I'm a duplex guy.
 
Not consdered some of the other options. Seems like the Vortex scopes have short (3" or so) eye relief. I have a couple of Weaver scopes on rifles, and their eye relief is the same as the Elite, at 3.3".
 
I think I'll stick to Conquest 3-9x40 on centerfire hunting rifles, upgrade to Elite 6500 2.5-16 on varmint / long range rifles, and just need to decide what will work on the rimfire rifles.
 
4" + eye relief
7x or 9x as max magnification
Elite 3200 standard glass
Good repeatable and positive adjustments (one thing I noticed on the Redfiedl I looked at was that the adjustments were very mushy)
 
At this rate I may end up with conquest on the rimfires too - though I could not afford one for each rimfire I own (probably about 15)
 
I noted that Nikon do a dedicated 4x rimfire scope for about $100. It has 4" eye relief BUT the deal killer is that it is very short, and even though the eye relief is there, the body lenth is not (too short overall). Actually, that is another factor to consider - we really need to concentrate on the distance from the ocular lens to the start of the objectve bell. Now things are getting complicated Big Grin
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 17:29
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 Hey Don,
 Not all Vortex scopes have 3" of eye relief. I have one of these on a 9.3x62 and another member has one on his .375 H&H. Ring mounting area is 5 3/8" in length.
 
 
Vortex 2-7x32 Viper Rifle Scope
Stock # - VPRM02P
  • Matte
  • V-Plex
  • 1"
Specifications
Weight (oz): 13


V-Plex

Length (in): 11.3
Eye Relief (in): 4 - 3.7
Field of View @ 100yds (ft): 46.7 - 13.4
Exit Pupil (mm): --
MOA: 1/4
Lens Coating: XR Coating
Warranty: Unlimited Transferable Warranty
 
 

Vortex 2-7x32 Viper Rifle Scope

$259.95
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 18:50
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Originally posted by magshooter1 magshooter1 wrote:

I would add a Vortex Diamondback 3x9x40 to your scope #2 choice.  Price is pretty close and IMO it's a better deal.

no doubt i really liked the diamondback i test drove a while back, i thought it was right in there.
ive got a 2x7x32 with the c3 on my .375H&H and i love it.


Edited by pyro6999 - July/16/2010 at 18:52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 18:54
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Originally posted by DonDavis DonDavis wrote:

I have several 4200 and 3200 Bushnell Elite scopes, and would agree that they are great. The 4200 does not have fast focus - a disadvantage in my view. Also, they all have eye relief of just 3.3 inches.really?? my 3x9 4200 has fast focus.
http://swfa.com/Bushnell-3-9x40-Elite-4200-Rifle-Scope-P6910.aspx
look at the picture in the link towards the eyepiece.

Eye relief is a big issue with me because I have a neck injury and can't stretch to get a good sight picture. All my scopes are mounted as far back as they'll go. Eye relief is the first thing I look at on a scope, and I've reached the point where I look for 4", but realize that I must go down to 3.5" to include a good range of scopes. 5" or 6" would be good for me.
 
Needless to say, on my Elites I do not see a full field of view.
 
I think the Elite 6500 has longer eye relief, and I am considering the 2.5 - 16 for a 243 varmint rilfe.
 
The Zeiss Conquest is good in terms of eye relief - the only scope I have (except for a Bushnell Banner long eye relief model) where I see a full field.
 
Conquest 3-9x40 s a great value right now Big Smile
 
The Banner long eye relief scope (claimed 6", actually about 4.5) is an excellent value scope in terms of clarity BUT once the sun goes down it just whites out and is absolutely useless. Good scope for plinking in good light.
 
With my eye relief constraint, choices are limited !
 
 


Edited by pyro6999 - July/16/2010 at 18:56
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 20:18
DonDavis View Drop Down
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That Vortex 2-7 looks very nice. Does it have rapid focus too ? It is somehat over what I'd hoped to get away with (about $150 to $200)
 
The Elite 4200 3-9x40 is somethig of an anomolyin the 4200 range. The only one I know of with a fast focus eyepiece. I think they took the 3200 body, added the 4200 glass quality and then you have a 4200 3-9 with fast focus
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 20:24
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i think you should go look again, pretty much every 4200 has fast focus, if it doesnt have side focus.
here is my 2x7 mounted on my .375H&H notice the fast focus.




Edited by pyro6999 - July/16/2010 at 20:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 21:01
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Perhaps they upgraded them since I got mine. I have several, and none are fast focus.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2010 at 21:18
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if you havent looked at the vortex diamondback, i would suggest you do they are excellent for the money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 06:36
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When I suggested you read Koshkins inexpensive scope article I was thinking you might be swayed by the Vortex. I know I had not seen one when I read that article but recently a local shop got in a few of the crossfires and diamondbacks. For a 22 I would be very tempted by one of those. The local shop has a 2-7 crossfire that is very clear and bright. If you can't see your target thru one of those then you need to see a Dr. not buy a more expensive scope. They even have some rimfire model avaliable. I am considering one of the fixed 6x models or the 2-7x models for my 22.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 13:19
DonDavis View Drop Down
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yeah, I done a little research on Vortex by reading some reviews on amazon.com and midwayusa.com (usually both are good sources for opinions).
 
There were quite a few negative reviews on Vortex
 
I know that there are companies who specialize in going on websites and hyping or trashing a product. Don't know if that has happened in this case, but there is very contradictory info on Vortex. I've never seen one personally, and they are not a bargain basement product, and they are made in China from what i recall of the other review. Just a lot of doubts.
 
Perhaps the less than stellar reviews on the other sites were from rival companies who are trying to put down Vortex ?
 
The 2-7x32 has some very attractive spcs from my perspective.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2010 at 13:28
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Originally posted by DonDavis DonDavis wrote:

yeah, I done a little research on Vortex by reading some reviews on amazon.com and midwayusa.com (usually both are good sources for opinions).
 
There were quite a few negative reviews on Vortex
 
I know that there are companies who specialize in going on websites and hyping or trashing a product. Don't know if that has happened in this case, but there is very contradictory info on Vortex. I've never seen one personally, and they are not a bargain basement product, and they are made in China from what i recall of the other review. Just a lot of doubts.
 
Perhaps the less than stellar reviews on the other sites were from rival companies who are trying to put down Vortex ?
 
The 2-7x32 has some very attractive spcs from my perspective.

the cross fire is the only vortex that has anything to do with china, vipers come out of japan and diamondbacks i believe  come out of the Philippines.

i would go to vortex's web page and see if you have a stocking dealer in your area, and go handle a few for yourself. i think your letting outside sources sway your opinion and you havent even looked through them. i wouldnt use one if i didnt think it was worth a hoot, it wouldnt survive on my .375H&H if it was a cheapo chicom piece of crap.
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