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opeagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advice Help Needed
    Posted: March/29/2010 at 19:26
 I submit this for the truly insightful and honest advice I feel is present here. 

 Not real sure if this should have been in the Rifle, Tactical or Target section so my apologies if this should be elsewhere. 
 

 A good friend of mine is getting into bolt gun shooting and is scheduled to take a class with me in less than two weeks.  He has a Remington Tactical Target .308 on the way with a Badger 20moa base.  He is looking to make it an all around rifle, tactical shoots, benchrest, varmints and whatever SHTF situation may come up.  His experience is limited to shooting my AR's and one Savage 22-250 benchrest gun with a 30x something power scope.

 With my limited optics experience I need some help.

 He thinks he wants a variable with maybe 20x something on the top.  After his one benchrest experience he seems pretty sure he wants a lot of magnification. Wants Mil/Mil with some type of Mil reticle.  Probably First Focal plane and in the $800 maybe $1000 range.  Initial ranges will be 500 and under but we can get over that on the farm.

 Thoughts?

 
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diggler1833 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diggler1833 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2010 at 20:40
Tell him to buy once and cry once and get a Nightforce, it has what he wants.
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Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2010 at 22:22
http://swfa.com/Vortex-5-20x50-Razor-HD-35mm-Rifle-Scope-P42753.aspx
while I like the tactical knobs of the Nightforce I am not that wild about their glass for the $2K they cost so I would probably look real hard at the Vortex Razor instead it has a better warranty and the Viper PST might be more in his price range.  Beware of how much internal adjustment scopes have.  I suggest a 4-16 or at most a 5-20 you will use the low end more than you think.  I also like the 1/10 mil adjustments and FFP or fixed.  One really good choice in his price range is the fixed 10 X  HD Super Sniper
SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope Mil-Dot SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS10X42HD
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • .10 Mrad
  • HD Model
$799.95 
Add SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope to Cart

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jonoMT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2010 at 22:30
He really needs to take a serious look at the Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 if he wants to meet all those objectives and stay under a grand. And, no offense, but one benchrest experience is not a good way to even choose a scope for benchrest shooting, let alone all those other things. People forget about keeping low-end magnification until they really need it. 15-16X on the high end is plenty and 4X is as high as I'd go on the low-end for anything meant to be a "SHTF" rifle or, far more likely, a decent hunting rifle.
Reaction time is a factor...
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neilbilly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neilbilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2010 at 23:12

I agree Jono.


A lot of emphasis seems to be on the high end of the range, but that small field of vision can quickly start to suck when something moves 10 feet and you lose it. I love the little bit of extra field of view on my Diamondback 3-9 because most of the stuff I shoot at doesn't hold still for long. "well except for one ram that basically gave me a perfect broadside as if to say... do I look fat from this angle?" 


I haven't looked through the Viper PST yet, but if it's a cut above the Diamondback it's a really nice scope. 


Be a lot easier to just have a couple of rifles and have one set up for just  bench shooting. Or just 1 bolt gun with 2 scopes. Quick detach rings and you're pretty much set. Hard to do both hunt and paper punch with the same scope and do both really well. "the 3-9 SS seems to be a good all-arounder like that, so if I had to have just 1 I'd go that route" It's nice to have all that magnification if you're sniping across the bean field, but when you're trying to hunt and get a scope full of hair and don't know if you're seeing the rooter or the tooter of the critter that stepped out from behind the tree it'll suck a bit. "don't ask me how I know this, that deer is likely still laughing"

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just talking from my own personal experience. I don't target shoot past 200 yards. I killed an antelope in Montana at about 600 yards with a 3-9 scope on a .308   I didn't shoot him in the ear hole or anything, but did kill him. "for the record if an animal eats pretty much nothing but sage, they taste a lot like sage"

I wouldn't go any more than 4-16 were it me. He can get really good glass in that range for the money he's looking to spend.  My .02




If God didn't want me to play with it, he'd of made my arms shorter.
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opeagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/30/2010 at 07:42
 While I personally agree he is falling into a trap of possibly excessive magnification, he counters by saying "it's a precision rifle, how can the big magnification be a problem"

 Given my limited knowledge I cannot support a solid argument. Any advice here?

 Back to the optic itself.  I think he may bend if I can find something in the upper teens on power, but it's gotta be fast.  The class is rapidly approaching.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/30/2010 at 08:00
For your friends i think he may be best with just the plain ole Super Sniper 10X to start his shooting with.  Its not a lot of money but his a helluva' lot scope.  If he finds its plenty for what he's wanting then I would tell him to upgrade to the 10X HD for superb glass if he desires.  His limited experience and want to start shooting more he will be happy with the 10X.  Also keep in mind you can pretty much see you heartbeat  (lol) on a high power setting as all little movements are enlarged in the sight picture.
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opeagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/30/2010 at 14:31
 While I don't disagree, he is bent on getting to at least 15x on the top.

 Magnification on the big end #1
 Mill - Mill #2
 Mil based reticle  #3
 FFP #4
 All for under $1,000.

 Does it exist in at least 3 of the 4?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/30/2010 at 17:00
The Viper PSTs are the only scopes I know of that are going to meet all those criteria and stay under a grand. If he's determined to go overboard on magnification, the 6-24X is the next (and only) step up from the 4-16X. But he should consider that the FOV at 6X is 65% of the 4-16X @ 4X. That would suck under 100 yards and would really suck under 50 yards.

I've shot at least one big game animal a season under 100 yards for the last 8 years despite being prepared to take a shot at several times that distance. The biggest variable I own goes to 15X and I feel comfortable with it out to 750 yards. It ain't the view, it's the wind that gets me. After all, optically (with good glass) shooting that distance @ 15X is not much different from shooting 50 yards with iron sights. And I consider it pretty lame to shoot my Garand at distances under 100 yards.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Manny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/30/2010 at 23:23
This one seems like it'll fit what your friend is looking for:

http://swfa.com:80/Bushnell-6-24x50-Elite-4200-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P45483.aspx

I have much the same scope in regular 2nd focal plane w/ NO illumination that came on a rifle I got in trade. I've only shot it to 300 yards but the scope is very nice, just more magnification than I want for that application, the new 3-12x44 FFP is more in line with what I want. The only negative I've heard regarding the model I have is lack of internal travel for the extra long distance, but it should be just fine out to at least 600 yards. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote austin243600yd. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2010 at 14:59
ur friend needs to start with a supersniper 10x42 he may want alot of magnificatin but i dont think he realizes how shakey things get past 15. i shoot 800yds. on 6 power and pick off coyotes all day i do have a few misses here and there but thats my fault havent practised much lately
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opeagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2010 at 16:14
 In the end he will probably wind up with either the Sightron SIII 6-24x50 or 8-32x56.

 While I feel he is going overboard on the magnification, he wants to shoot bench about once per month so the big numbers appeal to him.


 Thanks to those who added their thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgsxr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/09/2010 at 13:57
I am just curious what scope he ended up getting and whether or not he is satisfied with his decision?
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