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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2010 at 23:12
230therapy View Drop Down
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I'm contemplating getting the ACOG.  My concern with the 4x32 models is the difficulty in using it inside 25 to 50 yards.

I really like the BDC's in the 3x and higher magnification scopes.  Does the 3x30 perform better close up?

How does the 2x perform at short range?  How does it work out to 200-300 yards?

***

How do the BDC's work in the scopes?  What does the horizontal bar represent?  My PFI RR800-1 has 2.5 mph wind hash marks.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2010 at 01:23
Sapper524 View Drop Down
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whats the max range your looking to use this optic?  I know a few 3 Gun guys who dance about this debate often.   Application would dictate here in my opinion.  Sacrifice speed up close for accuracy at distance.  A friend of mine shoots quite a bit of 3 gun and is constantly swapping between aimpoints/eotechs/acogs/1x4s trying to find a solution. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2010 at 10:54
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200 yards for the most part;  300 yards max.

I'm debating the difference between the 3x and 4x close in.  It would be great if the 2x included a BDC out to 200 or 300 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2010 at 15:48
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I use a 1.5x amber triangle  TA442 and find it works real well up close and working off the point of the triangle it is sub moa at 300 yds past that it would not be my choice.
Also the amber tends to wash out when  looking toward bright lights at night were red doesnt but amber is great in the woods. I also have a 3x red crosshair compact acog    TA50R4 and eye relief is shorter on that than the other one. I think the triangle is a better CQB reticle and I like working off of the point at distance and using the whole triangle up close.   You really need to watch how much eye relief and how wide the field of view is on different models of ACOG.   I also have a TAO1B  4x but I would prefer a fiber optic model this one is BDC for .308  It will still work OK up close focus will be a little blury but still useable and really good at longer distances.  Quite frankly it is hard to make a wrong choice with the ACOG line.  I would tend to base it on if you want to go past 300 you need the 4x with balistic reticle and if you dont any of the lower powers will be satisfactory  but the 1.5 has the widest field of view and it is a significant improvement over an aimpoint comp M4.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2010 at 16:02
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Long Range  Federal Ammo .223
Load No
Caliber
50 Y
100 Y
200 Y
300 Y
400 Y
500 Y
GM223M3
77gr SMK
223 Rem. (5.56x45mm)
0.9
2.1
-9.0
-26.1
-54.1
GM223M
69gr SMK
223 Rem. (5.56x45mm)
0.7
1.7
-8.1
-24.1
-51.0
Considering the balistics why would you need a BDC if you use a 200 yd zero and are not shooting past 300 you simply hold 8 to 9 inches over at 300 to be dead on. Considering the difference between 100 and 200 it makes no sense to zero at 100 however you could use a 300 yd zero and hold under on closer shots.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/16/2010 at 16:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2010 at 17:16
230therapy View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Long Range  Federal Ammo .223
Load No
Caliber
50 Y
100 Y
200 Y
300 Y
400 Y
500 Y
GM223M3
77gr SMK
223 Rem. (5.56x45mm)
0.9
2.1
-9.0
-26.1
-54.1
GM223M
69gr SMK
223 Rem. (5.56x45mm)
0.7
1.7
-8.1
-24.1
-51.0
Considering the balistics why would you need a BDC if you use a 200 yd zero and are not shooting past 300 you simply hold 8 to 9 inches over at 300 to be dead on. Considering the difference between 100 and 200 it makes no sense to zero at 100 however you could use a 300 yd zero and hold under on closer shots.


Zeroing at 100 yards makes TONS of sense if one does not have access to a 300 yard range.  While I could guess by grouping a certain distance above at range X, I prefer to verify and actually shoot at the distance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 07:54
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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you can physically sight in at 100 yds, consult something like JBM ballistic program for the drop at 200 then adjust the scope for this and the sight in will be for 200 yds without having to do it. Deciding on which works best for 3 gun depends more on what the local group, which is limited by which range they use more than a rational decision as to the spec. of the scope and gun. You don't give the gun and cartridge so its difficult to say.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 11:08
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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I've used a 3.5x for 3-Gun and love it.  They key is to get one with the BAC and learn how to use the BAC properly.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 18:12
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Federals website also post the 100 yd zero info for those who wish to hold over a few extra inches. 
Average Range
Load No
Caliber
50 Y
100 Y
200 Y
300 Y
GM223M
69gr SMK
223 Rem. (5.56x45mm)
-0.2
-3.5
-13.3
  Average Range
Load No
Caliber
50 Y
100 Y
200 Y
300 Y
GM223M3
223 Rem. (5.56x45mm)
-0.1
-4.2
-15.2
Sight at what ever range you like the M16A2 is sighted at 300 meters and the M16A1 at 250 meters but you are not limited to doing what makes sense to others and the point was that there is so little bullet drop between point blank and 300 yards that you are still in chest cavity therefore BDC reticles are not a must have until you get past 300 yards where the bullet suffers more of the effect of gravity. 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/17/2010 at 18:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2010 at 18:24
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 230therapy 230therapy wrote:

200 yards for the most part;  300 yards max.

I'm debating the difference between the 3x and 4x close in.  It would be great if the 2x included a BDC out to 200 or 300 yards.
So I give you an answer based on 200 yards and you tell me:
 
"Zeroing at 100 yards makes TONS of sense if one does not have access to a 300 yard range.  While I could guess by grouping a certain distance above at range X, I prefer to verify and actually shoot at the distance."
 
Question  Ok I give up - why would it be great if the 2x included a BDC out to 200 or 300 yds? You are thinking hunting optic not combat optic a busy reticle is not a good thing.   Inside 300 yds things happen very quickly.  Look at the hold over values on the tactical reticles.
 
Now just for a minute try to forget that you have spend your life shooting off a bench with sand bags and pick up the rifle and try to hand hold it and look at your circle of wobble and realize that higher magnification works against you putting rounds on target quickly. 
 
Trijicon 2x20 Compact Acog Rifle Scope Red Triangle Trijicon 2x20 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA47R2
  • Red Triangle
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
  • Field of View @ 100yds (ft): 29.5
$909.95
Add Trijicon 2x20 Compact Acog Rifle Scope to Cart 

 
Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope Red Triangle Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA44R2
  • Red Triangle
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
  • Field of View @ 100yds (ft): 39
$909.95
Add Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope to Cart 
Everything from 100 to 300 would be within the red triangle with a 100 yd zero.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/17/2010 at 19:12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2010 at 19:28
tombirdman View Drop Down
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I use a TA31 ECOS ACOG.
 
It has a little bit of everything.  Iron sights,  Red dot on top and a 600 meter BDC with range estimating - shoulder to shoulder at different ranges, from 600 to 1000 is for the SAW Machinegun.  Also it uses the Binden aiming concept.
 
I bought mine for my SCAR = color match, a TA31 with red dot can be had in black also.
 
Anyway it's a good scope and answeres the problem of close to distant shooting.
 
Tom
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 13:23
230therapy View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks for all the responses everyone.

I'm still looking around since money is coming in from stuff I'm selling off to pay for the new rifle and this optic.

The main thing is that I'm looking at mostly 0-300.  I'd like to do some paper punching at 600, but there are very few ranges past 300 in my area.  I've been looking around at other optics...generally 1-4x with tactical reticles and they're very expensive. 

As mentioned above, if the ACOG 1.5x16 with triangle can put all rounds into the triangle at 300, then that's probably good enough. 

It seems like some people like little or no magnification for close in, while others don't mind it at all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 13:44
230therapy View Drop Down
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The magnification issue is the one that is making it difficult to decide.  The 1.5x16 seems to be a good compromise between an 4x32 RCO and an Aimpoint.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 13:48
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YES !
 
It all boils down to personal choice, what your going to use it for, how much you want to spend, etc.
 
If it's good for you  = get it.
If it doesn't work out, sell it or keep it, take your loss and call it the cost of education.
You've got a whole lifetime of fun and experimenting so enjoy !
 
Tom
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 13:52
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Good thing on the ACOG's they resale easy and for a good portion of what you have in it
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 13:55
230therapy View Drop Down
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Does anyone have experience with the 2x20 ACOGs?  Does the 2x interfere at 50-25 yards or closer?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 13:59
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Get the 4X and add a laser for up close work, or top it with a small red dot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 14:00
230therapy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Get the 4X and add a laser for up close work, or top it with a small red dot.



Which is great...except for the $1900+ price.  I have $1000-1200, tops. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 16:19
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I'd look at a good 1-4X
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 16:20
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I have a 3x30 with the green horseshoe reticle.  At distance the dot is pretty large to be shooting tight little groups.  But it works well for getting on larger targets quickly which is really the point.  The BAC works well and seems pretty fast, and with 62 grain bullets the BDC is pretty close out to 500 yards which is as far as I tried it.  I was able to hit chest size targets very easily at 500 yards. 

THe 3x30 is very light when you add the Larue mount.  Makes for a compact light weight setup that is pretty good for close stuff and great for the 200 to 300 yard targets.

If your purpose is target shooting, I would probably not bother with an ACOG.  Get one of the accupoints, otherwise they are great optics
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 20:22
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Originally posted by 230therapy 230therapy wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Get the 4X and add a laser for up close work, or top it with a small red dot.



Which is great...except for the $1900+ price.  I have $1000-1200, tops. 
I have a TA31 with red dot on top.  Price was
$1,200 new.  I am sure you can find something used on one of the auction sight for less.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2010 at 20:56
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Time to buy one of each in La Rue mounts then you can switch them out on the fly.
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