OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Accurate or BS?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

Accurate or BS?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 03:14
So after copying and pasting all the above info, field of view is determined by the type of lens and magnification. (It has nothing to do with the objective size of the lens). The other variable is focal length. The shorter the focal length the larger the field of view. So generally speaking a short telescope would, due to its shorter focal length, have a wider field of view. However a manufacturer could built a long telescope and arrange the lenses in such a way that they have a short focal point and vice versa.
Back to Top
brodeur272 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: September/23/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brodeur272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 10:32
I was at a shop that had a vendor rep (will remain unnamed).  I was looking at their mid line scope ballistic type reticle and it was a 1" tube.  Just for s&*ts and grins, since I have more Euro 30 mm tubes, I asked him what the difference was between their top of the line 30 mms and the 1 in tubes.
 
His reply, "they transmit more light".  I put his scope down, thanked him for his time and walked away.  If the rep is that ignorant, I don;t need to buy their line of scope (although I had purchased 2 in years previous).
Back to Top
brodeur272 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: September/23/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brodeur272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 10:34
Oh John, that guy you're talking about must have switched companies...
Back to Top
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 12:19
He has worked for a couple of other European optics companies since leaving Swarovski. I would hate to tell you who he's working for now, because they make really good stuff!
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 13:50
I am always impressed with how little various sales reps typically know about the products they sell.  To this day, I have NEVER seen a gun shop employee who knew anything about optics.  A few people I have seen mounting optics in gun stores, had not clue what they were doing.  Even roaming around SHOT show and asking question, you get a feeling that most reps have a hard time telling the difference between a scope and a baseball bat. 

ILya
Back to Top
hunter12345 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: November/21/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 470
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 15:32
Wish I had experienced guys like you working for meExcellent
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I am always impressed with how little various sales reps typically know about the products they sell.  To this day, I have NEVER seen a gun shop employee who knew anything about optics.  A few people I have seen mounting optics in gun stores, had not clue what they were doing.  Even roaming around SHOT show and asking question, you get a feeling that most reps have a hard time telling the difference between a scope and a baseball bat. 

ILya
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 15:34
Originally posted by hunter12345 hunter12345 wrote:

Wish I had experienced guys like you working for meExcellent
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I am always impressed with how little various sales reps typically know about the products they sell.  To this day, I have NEVER seen a gun shop employee who knew anything about optics.  A few people I have seen mounting optics in gun stores, had not clue what they were doing.  Even roaming around SHOT show and asking question, you get a feeling that most reps have a hard time telling the difference between a scope and a baseball bat. 

ILya


I know that sounded condescending.  I did not mean it that way.  However, I would really like a rep to answer "I do not know" BEFORE being painted into the corner.

ILya
Back to Top
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 16:39

ILya,

I have experienced the same thing. I have even encountered employees of two well-known rifle companies that didn't know how to mount a scope, but thought they did. 

They essentially crushed scopes that they were mounting for me, to "save me time" when testing their company's rifles. Of course the scopes didn't work very well, so the rifles didn't come off looking great either! And I had to spend quite a bit of range and bench time figuring out what heck was wrong.... 

 

 

Back to Top
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: August/13/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 16:44
Yeah we get that a lot with people mounting their own guns. People claiming the scope is defective and it will not hold zero. When we get the scope back we understand why they torqued the rings to 500 ft lbs. Lol. We have seen some scopes tubes literally crushed to where they aren't even similar to a circle anymore. I have heard various complaints from customers of "BIG NAMES" doing things like this. It's a shame. Really Sad
 
Like they say if you can't cook stay out of the kitchen.
One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 19:26
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

ILya,

I have experienced the same thing. I have even encountered employees of two well-known rifle companies that didn't know how to mount a scope, but thought they did. 

They essentially crushed scopes that they were mounting for me, to "save me time" when testing their company's rifles. Of course the scopes didn't work very well, so the rifles didn't come off looking great either! And I had to spend quite a bit of range and bench time figuring out what heck was wrong.... 

 

 



I once ran into a guy on the range who came over with his new rifle that the gunsmtih mounted a new scope on.  I think it was a Leupold of some sort, and the guy was very proud of his new acquisition.  It was his first nice scope.  He looks through it a little bit and says that this whole "you get what you pay for" thing is BS.  Then he starts mucking around with it and gets more and more pissed.  I offered to look at it and he reluctantly agreed.  I look through the scope and the image is an OVAL instead of a circle.  Now that is something you do not see very often.  I try to change the magnification... and I can't.  It does not budge.  So I start looking at it a bit more carefully.

Turnes out that the rings (Weaver Grand Slam, if memory serves me right) were very out of spec and tightened to the point where the tube was both crushed and bent.  I gave him a set of spare rings I had (some sort of cheap rings that I had in my range bag) and mounted the scope in them.  Shot fine after that and magnificatino ring worked.

ILya
Back to Top
pass-thru View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2009
Location: Hubert NC
Status: Offline
Points: 109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pass-thru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 05:11
Question: what is the advantage of a 30mm tube over a 25mm tube it it does not improve light transmission?
Back to Top
medic52 View Drop Down
Optics Professional
Optics Professional
Avatar

Joined: October/05/2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 893
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote medic52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 06:30

Amazing at what some of the reps will tell you....

"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." G.K. Chesterton
Back to Top
John Barsness View Drop Down
Optics Optimist
Optics Optimist


Joined: January/27/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 09:53
ILya--Yeah, have seen the "fixed-power variable" syndrome a few times myself!
 
Pass-thru--The big advantage of a 30mm (or larger) tube is extra adjustment range, but that also means that the optics can't be crammed inside the scope. There are some 30mm scopes with an erector tube so big that the adjustment range is even less than in a 1" scope from the same company.
 
The other advantage is strength. A larger diameter tube tends to be harder to bend, whether in a soda straw or a riflescope--IF everything else is equal, such as tube length and wall thickness. This is also why many larger scopes have 30mm or even larger diameter tubes.
 
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2009 at 15:16
As far as light transmission goes, there is no advantage to a 30mm tube vs 1".

As far as optical design goes, technically, when you ahve more space, there is more latitude in the design, and, if that is the design purpose, you can eek out better performance out of the 30mm tubed scope vs a 1" tube scope.  The catch is that there is not way of knowing whether the optical system is any different in a bigger tube and whether the difference (if there is any) is noticeable to the human eye.

In practical terms the biggest advantage, as John pointed out, is that the scope can be made stiffer and stronger simply because there is more space for beefing up the mechanics.

ILya
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.182 seconds.