New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Accurate Loads
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Accurate Loads

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2009 at 19:39
JF4545 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: March/31/2009
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 2753
Ok Boys,              I would Appreciate your Experience and some of your Reloading Secrets...I would like to know the best/easiest way to create the most accurate loads. I cannot get many of the powders that the RL Manuals call for, If the book says the load is the most accurate. 
 
So I would like to know how you all do it...In other words if I want to work up a good 130gr. load for my 270 WSM using a TSX BT. Do I simply start with the lowest grains of Powder the Barnes Book calls for (RL 19 as an example) and work up to the Maximum amount (1 grain at a time) if need be and just pick the best one?
 
Or do I, If I cannot get good results from that powder, do I try a different powder and work up again?
 
Do you try a different bullet as a last resort and go back to your original powder that you started with and start the whole process over?
 
I would really like to hear the most simple method that you guys know works for YOU, so I do not have to waste any more time with trial and error than I have to...
 
I am currently or beginning loading for 7mm Rem. Mag. Bolt and Auto with regular and smaller dies. Also 223 Auto, 7mm-08, 270 WSM, 45 ACP.
 
Thanks! Im always grateful for the help I receive here at OT...I only wish I had started improving my shootin skills years ago...
JF
 
PS, I guess if its a MUST to have the PROPER POWDER to get the best load, then Im willing to order the powder online and pay the extra hazard fee.. I really do not want 2nd best, that way I will always know its ME and not the load or the rifle, etc.Thunbs Up


Edited by JF4545 - October/11/2009 at 19:46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 08:23
magshooter1 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: August/27/2008
Location: El Dorado, AR
Status: Offline
Points: 730
I always work up in 1/2 grain increments.  I weigh every charge.   Also I have found that COAL being very consistent is important.  If you get to your max charge and accuracy is still not there you can play with COAL and see what happens.  This is what works for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 08:41
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9515
Try this Julio, it works quite well and gets you there fast.  http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 09:16
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
Its a rare powder that will not give good results at some wt. The problem is that there may be one out that gives the same results with higher velocity. Hunters are continually caught in this , as they feel the need. Usually its easier to just go to the next bigger caliber and load it back down. (but thats another story). More important is consistent cold bore first shot accuracy than grouping in hunting rifles. Most of the time this gets harder as you push the load up the ladder.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 14:02
Trays 7940 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/09/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 1149
SuperTool... Great information. Now I have to head back to the drawing board.
The theory makes a lot of sense and I like being able to accout for the temperature changes, especialy in Texas.  Wake up and its 40  degrees... 75-80 by noon... 
Good stuff!  Bandito
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 17:42
JF4545 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: March/31/2009
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 2753
Thanks Jason,
I will study the information and try it out. I also want to buy this book by Ken Waters called "Pet Loads" as it may save me more time and energy...Dan Newberry mentions it in his info.
 
Thanks Again!
J.........
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 18:02
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9515
No prob.  I really like the OCW, it gets you in the ball park then you can start messing with seating depth and neck tension and other things to really tune it up.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 18:24
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4292
Ok, I've decided that when my package shows up tomorrow, I want to use the ocw method for finding out what she likes, but how do I know what powder to start with? I have 6 powders on hand that would work good for the caliber, but don't know which would work best. I would like to find a load quickly without blowing a lot of powder and especially bullets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 18:30
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4613
Read this article (and don't let the title scare you, even though it says it's for long-range load development): http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

You can modify the test for shorter ranges and I also bought Sharpie pens in more colors so I wouldn't have to do combinations of 2 colors like the author did. As far as powders and loads, sites like Hodgdon's will give you a decent idea of relative velocities for their lines of powder. My advice on powders is find what most people are using and start there. FOR EXAMPLE:  If loading 165 gr. bullets for .308 Win most shooters have had good results with Varget. I've gotten some better groups with Reloder 15 but the tradeoff was more temperature sensitivity and a dirtier barrel. Every rifle is different but you can start with 2-4 powders. I look for ones that provide mid-to-high velocities for the bullet and cartridge. I didn't do that when starting out and bought a bunch of IMR 3031 before realizing that it was too fast for my 20" barrel and heavier bullets. A perfectly fine powder in the right applications but I only use it now for 150-gr. plinking rounds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 18:44
lucytuma View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: November/25/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Really interesting information, thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2009 at 19:28
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1085
Hey Julio
 
If I am starting to load for a new caliber or bullet, I always go to the Nosler manual and see what they are calling the "Most Accurate Powder Tested", look at the load densities and the velocity .  They list IMR4350 in that category and I would load the middle load and work up.
 
I have spent considerable time with the OCW and it is like reading tea leaves sometimes.  The most useful thing in that system is looking for the "scatter group" and staying away from it.
 
The quickest way to accuracy in any rifle is to get rid of the expanding ball dies which will lower your runout, learning to Partial Full Length Resize, controlling you seating depth variations and dealing with bullet grip and bullet release consistancy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 02:19
JF4545 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: March/31/2009
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 2753
Hmm,
Ok I need to just relax and know that this is going to be a lifetime process as I suspected..Thats ok, I have plenty of time and one needs to enjoy every moment of what they are doing, no matter what....Myself I get to  hung up on the outcomes...
 
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 08:19
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5751
I normally start off by deciding what muzzle velocity I want or need. No good having a 300 H&H magnum and pushing rounds at a 308Win velocities!
I then load up according to the manuals load recommendation to give me this velocity. I also load sets of 3 rounds in 1/2 grain increments up to maximum safe load.
Then I go shoot, pick the load with the best grouping and then tinker with OAL for max accuracy.
This way I get a load with decent velocities for the caliber.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 10:03
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
one missing item here-- what level are your reloading skills, making a decision on the data from trial and error makes shooting a reloading hobby not a shooting hobby. Which one do you want to do. Reloading to the level of your shooting needs is the trick. Usually is about 90% insight gained from stacks and stacks of spent primers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 10:07
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 5751
Dale, some very wise words. It has taken me several years to figure that one out!

Edited by 8shots - October/13/2009 at 10:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/13/2009 at 13:40
JF4545 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: March/31/2009
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 2753
Yes, Im beginning to hear that also. Thats why I said this is going to be a lifetime affair for me as Im almost 53 and Im just starting to reload. I did a little bit of reloading back in the 80's but I really learned nothing....So Im starting from scratch, this year I bought everything a reloader will ever need.. WELL ,,,,Im sure there are some things I may need still but Ive got all the primary equipment and powders...We made up a load for my sons 7mm mag. that shoots under an inch at 200 yards.. I think we just got lucky on that one. We went up in 1 grain increments.. But now after reading these posts we will go up in 1/2 increments. My son does all the shooting/testing as he can handle recoil and I cannot. I flinch still and beside my neck and head are pretty damaged......   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 17:06
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4292
At what point should a person start looking at seating depths? I started with the OCW system  on my .300 wby (Silvia) and have found an area where the groups seem to hit the same general area. I must say that I wasn't really impressed with the size of any of the groups, but according to the ocw system, I'm not really looking for group size. My best group measured 1.31" out of 7 charge weights that were .5 gr. apart. This group is where the ocw groups kind of took place as well. How much should one to expect to be able to gain by changing seating depths? These groups are too big for me to consider making my long range hunting load. They are plenty fast, but I'd rather have the accuracy. Should I try a different powder first, or try tweaking this load and see if it tightens up?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 19:34
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1085
Hey Trigger, do you have enough magazine length to be able to try seating out further?  It wouldn't do you much good to seat out further if the cartridge won't fit in the magazine.
 
I would try a different bullet, powder or primer (in that order) to try and get your group size down.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 19:39
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4292
I seated them .100 short of magazine lenght to give myself room to go either way. The magazine in this thing is HUGE. I measured a round that just fit in there at almost 3.800".
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 20:03
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1085
But how close are you to the lands?  The only 300 Wtby I reload for, the bullet has to be seated .275" from the lands in order to fit the magazine.  IMO (and I don't know this for a fact, just an impression) the further you are from the lands the less changes in seating depth will have on group size.  IOW, if you are seating your bullets .275" from the lands, changing the seating depth by .050" will not have as much effect as changing the seating depth from .025" to .035" off the lands. 
 
The old adage is that if you are getting flyers seat deeper and if you have a consistant group size but too large, seat closer.  But this is generally considered when you are talking about .050" or less
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 20:08
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4292
I have the standard weatherby freebore, so I should me somewhere in the neighborhood of a mile or so from the lands. The only way I could seat to the lands that I've found so far is with a 200 gr. accubond seated WAY out. There is no way I can even get close and have them fit in the magazine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 20:20
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1085
Then, IMO, you should look to other avenues besides seating depth to significantly reduce groups size.  But, nothing is written in stone, every rifle is an individual.
 
Is your action bedded?
 
What load are you shooting?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 20:22
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4292
Shooting 180gr. Sierra gameking on top of 85.2 gr. IMR 7828ssc in a Wby case. Winchester wlrm primer. Velocity is running about 3175.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 20:28
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1085
Man!  That ought to be a great load!
 
Can you post pics of your ladder work up?
 
Do you have any Fed215 primers? (I could send you some)
 
Does your rifle have a pressure point on the tip of the forearm?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 20:33
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4292
I'll see if I can get the targets rounded up, and put on here somewhere. I do have some Fed 215's. Rifle is  Weatherby accumark. Factory pillar bedded with aluminum bedding block. #3 contour fluted barrel. Floated.
 
I may have had an error in the bottom part of my OCW development, but the upper end loads were ok. This is where I ended up seeing some potential, so I kept those targets.


Edited by trigger29 - October/19/2009 at 20:34
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Accurate Loads"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Accurate 4064 for .308? garyalarson Reloading & Ballistics 11
Most accurate 25-06 stilhuntin Firearms 28
Very accurate digi- scale- .02grain Alan Robertson Reloading & Ballistics 38
.308 Hand loads for long range Savage11B Reloading & Ballistics 30
Heavy 223 loads captainemil Reloading & Ballistics 20
load developement Tip69 Reloading & Ballistics 33
Accurate reading issues with Chrony 8shots Reloading & Ballistics 17
Subsonic Loads Bigdaddy0381 Reloading & Ballistics 23
Load development scope? LIMPINGJ Target 2
Some load results Gil P. Shooting 45


This page was generated in 0.875 seconds.