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Accumark VS. Sendero SF II

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 13:55
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I am considering the purchase of either a Weatherby Accumark or Remington Sendero SF II, the caliber will be 25-06. I know some will say I should go .257 wby but,  I'm only interested in 25-06.  The rifle will be set up for medium to long range work, primarily on pararie goats.  Thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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I had a Sendero and it was crazy accurate. I'd get another in a NY minute. 
The Sendero would be less expensive, too I assume?
 
  
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a guy I load for has a 300RUM sendero it is a smooth rifle. its has alot of weight but with a 300RUM it needs it. It also has a tight chamber. it's very nice. To nice for me to be around it anyways.
+2 on the sendero
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 15:54
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Originally posted by lucytuma lucytuma wrote:

I am considering the purchase of either a Weatherby Accumark or Remington Sendero SF II, the caliber will be 25-06. I know some will say I should go .257 wby but,  I'm only interested in 25-06.  The rifle will be set up for medium to long range work, primarily on pararie goats.  Thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
.......................................Great looking rifles in either!........The Sendero at 8.5 lbs. before scope, rings and sling, is a little weighty for my taste. By the time you get `er ready to go, your up to almost 10 lbs, at 10 lbs. or maybe even more. The Accumark would be about 3/4 lb. less!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 16:20
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I have the non-SF sendero and I like it very much.
I would make sure you get the non X-Mark trigger.  I prefer the older trigger that is wider with grooves.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 16:23
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Standing by for Dolphin's post......Whistling Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 16:32
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keep'em comming, this is what I'm looking for.  Many thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 20:31
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I am sure you will be happy with either,,,,but being Weatherby fan,  I'd go with the Accumark. The Accumark can be had new for just under a grand, has a 54 degree bolt lift , guaranteed accuracy (almost always exceeds it ) ,and is a little lighter .Plus, look at your Avatar !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 20:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2008 at 22:51
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Yes, I am a weatherby fan, but I've heard good things about the remington in question. I also like the fact that the remington uses a 26" barrel.  I don't have any experience with either the accumark or sendero and that why I'm curious of what others think.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2008 at 02:22
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I did my homework and came up with the Sendero. Unfortunately Rem does not make it in my cal of choice, in left hand action. So I opted for the Rem700VSF LH.
I have not been able to shoot with it, so I cannot comment on Rem accuracy. This is something that will be corrected next week.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2008 at 22:40
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Personally I would choose the Remington. I have yet to get one that will not shoot at least an inch with factory loads, 2 of them went under a quarter inch at a 100 with factory fodder., with the light barrel 300 wsm coming in at .900 with factory stuff.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 08:43
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I don't have experience with either one either, but would go with the Remmy mostly because they fit me better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2008 at 17:05
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OK CT, you have waited long enough.  I have no experience with the Sendero.  I do have experience with the Accumark.  Obviously both are fine rifles.  Both are built in very similar manners with respect to the stock and barrel.  The Accumark uses a button rifled Kreiger barrel that is one of the few Wbys. that is free floated.  I am not sure whether the Remington is free floated.  The Wby. lists for more than the Remington, but you should never pay retail price for a Wby..  You can actually special order the Accumark with a sub-moa guarantee.  Yes that is available on the Mark Vs.  However, out of the box, it will probably shoot sub-moa.  My personal preference is the Wby., as that is one of the best rifles they produce.  However, what you really need to do, is go to your gun shop and see how they shoulder and fit you and pick the one that is best for you and the one that strikes you right and you will not go wrong.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 05:39
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

However, what you really need to do, is go to your gun shop and see how they shoulder and fit you and pick the one that is best for you and the one that strikes you right and you will not go wrong.
 
Excellent advise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 06:48
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The Remington is also free floated & bedded by H-S Precision. I have the original Sendero in 7 MM RUM, and it shoots 1/2 MOA right from the factory. Thats with a 3 lb. trigger.  Have yet to adjust to my 2.5 lbs. liking. Probably the most accurate factory rifle I've ever shot. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2008 at 10:12
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Originally posted by yellowdog yellowdog wrote:

The Remington is also free floated & bedded by H-S Precision. I have the original Sendero in 7 MM RUM, and it shoots 1/2 MOA right from the factory. Thats with a 3 lb. trigger.  Have yet to adjust to my 2.5 lbs. liking. Probably the most accurate factory rifle I've ever shot. 


Yeah, I had a Sendero SF (not Sendero SF II) and I wish I kept it. It was dead on, the problem was it's a little on the heavy side to use for hunting.


Edited by mike650 - March/09/2008 at 23:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2008 at 22:11
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I was in your exact same situation not more than 4 months ago.  I was concidering an Accumark and the Sendero SF II in .25-06 and finally decided to go with the Remington. 
I too wanted this rifle for the same reasons as you.  I bought mine out of Georgia from an online dealer and got the gun for about 450 dollars cheaper than the Accumark.  The savings I put toward good optics, which the gun deserves.  I have slowly been breaking the gun in and have recently shot a 6 shot group measuring just over 1/2" at 100yds.  Not too bad on a hot barrel.  Imagine what it could do on the open planes against antelope or varmints.  100gn or 120gn bullets are deadly accurate, but there are several manufacturers that produce very good light weight bullets for your needs and don't worry becasue all will be accurate.
 
Both are excellent rifles with their own pros and cons.  In the end, I think you'll be happier with a Remington because of the following reasons especially after you start shooting it at the range.  Weatherby is a great gun, but highly overpriced for what you get.  If you don't believe me compare these guns side by side.
1. Heavier barrel on Remington, better for repeat shots due to less barrel whip(harmonics).
Sendero = .820     Accumark = .705
2. Longer barrel on Remington, therefore you'll achieve higher velocities with relatively little effort with reloads or store bought ammo.
Sendero = 26"      Accumark = 24"
3. Fitted to an HS Precision stock which happens to have a full length aluminum bedding block.
Sendero = HS precision     Accumark = Bell & Carlson (with full bedding block as well)
4. Has the new X-mark pro trigger which can be adjusted easily to light trigger weight.
Sendero = X-Mark pro (fully adjustable)     Accumark = Weatherby trigger (fully adjustable, unfortunately it has a lot of creep and overtravell) 
5. The gun happens to be specially made by Remington for only one major supplier, therefore will probably end up as some what of a collectors item once they stop production and run out of stock. 
6. Lastly, Remington offered a 50 dollar rebate after purchase.
Sendero = around $850.00        Accumark = around $1300 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2008 at 07:57
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Well, Atlass00, you know I could not let that post go.  First, on the Remington website, I do not see a 25-06 in the Sendero II.  Second, from my stand point, I personally do not see any benefit in a HS stock and a Bell and Carlson.  Both are full length aluminum bedded and ordered from the factory for a specific gun are not that much difference in price.  I defy anyone to show me that one gun will group better in one stock than the other.  Wby. does use HS stocks in other guns, but they could have easily used them in the Accumark.  The Accumark trigger is perfect out of the box. I have no creep, breaks crisply with no over travel.  As good as any after market trigger I have used.  I have never felt the need to adjust it.  As far as a 24 vs a 26 inch barrel, thats a preference with minimal difference of velocity that will make no major difference in terminal ballistics.  Lastly, price, never pay retail for a Wby. like you did not pay retail for your Remington.  Either rifle is great.  He should pick the model on which fits his body the best and which strikes him as the one that is the baby he would like to live with a long time.  There is no substitute for handling and shouldering a rifle before purchasing it.  Fortunately for me and many of the forum members, they have handled enough rifles, they know what fits them and can buy one sight unseen.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2008 at 10:51
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Well, Atlass00, you know I could not let that post go.  First, on the Remington website, I do not see a 25-06 in the Sendero II.  Second, from my stand point, I personally do not see any benefit in a HS stock and a Bell and Carlson.  Both are full length aluminum bedded and ordered from the factory for a specific gun are not that much difference in price.  I defy anyone to show me that one gun will group better in one stock than the other.  Wby. does use HS stocks in other guns, but they could have easily used them in the Accumark.  The Accumark trigger is perfect out of the box. I have no creep, breaks crisply with no over travel.  As good as any after market trigger I have used.  I have never felt the need to adjust it.  As far as a 24 vs a 26 inch barrel, thats a preference with minimal difference of velocity that will make no major difference in terminal ballistics.  Lastly, price, never pay retail for a Wby. like you did not pay retail for your Remington.  Either rifle is great.  He should pick the model on which fits his body the best and which strikes him as the one that is the baby he would like to live with a long time.  There is no substitute for handling and shouldering a rifle before purchasing it.  Fortunately for me and many of the forum members, they have handled enough rifles, they know what fits them and can buy one sight unseen.
.....................................................Well said Dolphin!!............More to consider than just the rifle itself! It`s how the user handles either rifle and which one the shooter is able to handle the best!!...........Atlas! I must be really hurtin then in the velocity dept. with my 16.5 barreled 300 WSM Ruger Frontier which is 7.5" shorter than the 24" tubes!! I can only push a 150 grainer @ just over 3100 fps.,,,,,,,,,,,,,a 180 grainer @ 2900+ fps.,,,,,,,,,,,and a 200 grainer @ 2800+ fps.,,,,,,,,,,Roughly about a 4 to 5% loss vs. the 24" barreled 300 WSM`s!!...........That 2" loss you were talking about or any velocity loss associated with it???.........Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing 
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Squeezer...... I see you comparing those specs in regard to a 18.5" barrel vs a longer barrel and wonder where you are getting the info for the longer barrel?  Do you have both and are you using a chrony to measure both?  Otherwise, I'm not so sure you are comparing apples to apples.  I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I've learned a few things and almost everybody I know or read about says a longer barrel will give "better" results!  If a short barrel is so great, why aren't all the manufactures using them and benefiting from cheaper input costs?  Not trying to start a fight or be disrespectful!  I'm just trying to figure this out.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2008 at 19:17
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

Squeezer...... I see you comparing those specs in regard to a 18.5" barrel vs a longer barrel and wonder where you are getting the info for the longer barrel?  Do you have both and are you using a chrony to measure both?  Otherwise, I'm not so sure you are comparing apples to apples.  I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I've learned a few things and almost everybody I know or read about says a longer barrel will give "better" results!  If a short barrel is so great, why aren't all the manufactures using them and benefiting from cheaper input costs?  Not trying to start a fight or be disrespectful!  I'm just trying to figure this out.   
..............................Tip!...............The figures given in my last post, are actual chrony results from my 300 WSM Ruger Frontier with the 16.5" barrel, not from an 18.5" barrel. Those results were also confirmed by a second test with another chrony!............There seems to be this great mis-conception out there, that velocities are seriously hampered by shorter rifle barrels, to the tune of say 50 fps. or greater for every inch of length lost!..In  a few cases, maybe! But for most cartridges,,NOT SO!! Realistically there is only a 15 to 30 fps. difference for every inch of shorter length..................I will refer you to,,,,,"shootingtimes.com"...From that home page, click on "long guns",,,,then scroll down and click on either page 3 or 4. From there, please find the article entitled "Short Answer About Scout Styled Rifles" by Dick Metcalf! A great read!!.................His test rifle, a Frontier 7mm/08 came to within 4.5% of a 24" barreled 7mm/08 using factory ammo. In essence, only a 4.5% loss in velocity from a barrel that is a whoppin 31% shorter??? NOT TOO BAD!!..........Well! To confirm for myself Metcalf`s findings, for my 300 WSM test loads, I copied from the "reloaders nest" site under "rifle loads" (for your viewing), one particular 300 WSM loading using a 200 gr. Nosler Accubond, in which the recorded velocity submitted was 2930 fps. from a 24" tube using 68 gr. of Rel #19..........Starting at 65 gr., I carefully worked up in 1/2 grain increments to a 69 gr. max. for MY individual rifle, as 69.5 grains showed signs of pressure. That 68 gr. load on the "reloaders nest" as duplicated in powder, brass, primers, bullet, COL etc., chronographed at an average of 2794 fps from my Frontier, which is almost exactly, TO A TEE, the 4.5% reduction from the 2930 fps. recorded out of the 24" tube!! Confirming Metcalf`s findings?? Yep!!!..... At the 69 gr. charge, the average chronographed velocity from my Frontier was 2828 fps. or a reduction of only 3.5%. I have also played around using 150 & 180 gr. SST`s with the same results; a reduction of 4.5% or less vs other loads recorded from the longer 300 WSM 24" barrels!..............Of course, the longer barrels will always give better velocities than the shorter ones!! BUT! There is not all that much loss!! However, it`s perceived as more!......................The manufacturers that are making shorter than 24" barrels you ask??? How about the 20" Remy 7`s!!! How about the new 20" Ruger RCM`s! The 20" Alaskans in .375 Ruger!! The new 20" Howa M1500 .375 Ruger that I personally have coming this summer! How about all the youth models from Howa & Weatherby. The 20" Ruger Ultralites! How about the Browning Micro hunters with the shorter barrels!!! On & on I could go!.....................Why are the gun makers doing this? Simple! As an example, you will find that the .375 Rugers ballistics, given the same barrel length, exceed the ballistics of a 375 H&H, but almost does duplicate the H&H round from only a 20" barrel. The .375 Ruger`s casing design as with all the WSM`s, the new Ruger Compact Magnums (RCM`s), the Remy short mags etc., ARE designed to be (almost as) or in some cases, just as efficient in the shorter barrels as the longer mags are in the longer barrels. In some cases, the shorter and fatter cases, are able to hold more powder, as with the .375 Ruger`s casing vs the 375 H&H...... Using a 150 gr. and 180gr. bullets, why is it that the 300 WSM from a 24" barrel, using less powder, equals and can exceed (depending on the rifle), the 150 and 180 gr. ballistics from a 300 Win. (24" barrel), that uses more powder to accomplish the same thing??? Simple! CASE DESIGN!.................Also, shorter and more compact rifles are lighter, easier to carry through the thickets, are more manuverable, faster to acquire the target with some having shorter LOP`s, easier to pack, easier to store behind a truck seat, just as accurate and will kill game as effectively given the same ranges as the 24"ers!!..................After owning a full sized rifle for 35 years, I have gladly sacrificed a 4.5% & less in velocity to get those features and with no regrets!..........You watch! Because similiar ballistic performances can be achieved and as more time goes by, just about all the rifle makers IMO, will offer shorter and more compact rifles for the very reasons that I have given!............................It was Metcalf`s article that really helped me make my mind up to get my Frontier last year and then confirm is findings afterwards! No more 300 WSM`s though in the Frontier. Too bad!.......What a compact powerhouse she is!! Kinda like a little woman but with a big loud mouth! Shocked...........Coffee...............  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2008 at 19:38
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Here is the latest from Hornady, both from 24" tubes
.375 H&H, 300 gr. FMJ-RN
8509
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2705/4873 2386/3792 2089/2908 1817/2198 1568/1637 1354/1221

375 Ruger 300 gr. FMJ-RN
8232
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2660/4713 2344/3660 2050/2800 1780/2110 1536/1572 1328/1174

Back to the thread. I'm a Remington fan but would certainly consider the Weatherby. They make high quality rifles and I would go with what feels right.
The 25.06 is a good choice, too. I have always liked that cartridge for some reason, but never got one.



Edited by tahqua - April/01/2008 at 20:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2008 at 20:58
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Here is the latest from Hornady, both from 24" tubes
.375 H&H, 300 gr. FMJ-RN
8509
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2705/4873 2386/3792 2089/2908 1817/2198 1568/1637 1354/1221

375 Ruger 300 gr. FMJ-RN
8232
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2660/4713 2344/3660 2050/2800 1780/2110 1536/1572 1328/1174

Back to the thread. I'm a Remington fan but would certainly consider the Weatherby. They make high quality rifles and I would go with what feels right.

....................Tahqua..........Is that an across the board average using all powders available?? I doubt it! I see a bunch of #`s but no actual loading charge data!....... The Ruger round holds an additional 6 grains or so more powder than the H&H round! Using physics alone, the Ruger round will have the higher velocity given the same bullet weight and barrel length!!.............In Holt Bodinson`s article in the 12/07 issue of Guns Magazine, using factory ammo, the chronographed 300 gr. loads from the 375 Ruger Alaskan`s 20" tube averaged 2569 fps., while the 300 gr. velocity from his 25" Brno 375 H&H averaged 2610 fps. An average gain of 41 fps. from a barrel  5" longer!!.......If both cartridges were loaded to the max. allowable charges/pressures for all given rifles chambered for them and fired from identical barrel lengths, I`ll bet on the 375 Ruger to out simply out perform the 375 H&H everytime!...........I have to question the legitimacy of this info from Hornady, if in fact it comes from Hornady!........My intuition tells me that something is not quite up to par here!!Stare
 
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I have an early Sendero in 300WinMag with floated and flutted barrel. The trigger is heavy but crisp with no overtravel. It shoots 1/2" to 1 1/2"@100yds depending on load and me. My only complaint is that the stock does not quite fit me, so when I shoot the bolt handle hits my trigger finger in recoil and skins it up a little. Thinking about replacing the stock with a Bell&Carlsen adjustable and either adjusting or replacing the trigger.                                  It's smooth and accurate,and I like it.
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