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? about SS20x or possible replacement

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 07:48
m1k3 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: August/17/2008
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Hey All, I need a little help.  I'm shooting a Savage 10fp .308 with an SS10x on it now.  I mostly shoot paper at 100-200 yds at the moment.  I would like to start shooting longer ranges and work up to 600+ yds.  I've started to notice that my groups are now smaller than the cross hairs of the 10x at 100yds.  Is the 20x going to be any different?  Or is it going to get me closer to the target but the cross hairs are still going to cover the same amount of paper?

What scopes should I be looking at?  I can probably go to the $550-650 range if I sell the SS10x.  If the 20x or 16x version zooms in on the target but keeps the hair width the same, I'll certianly go that way but what other brands will fit the bill?
 
Thanks!
 
Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 08:58
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Optics Jedi Knight
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the amt the cross hair subtends on the target varies with the type of reticle, the mag and the focal plane. general utility sporting optics reticles cover too much for target work as the are designed for use in less light situations eg. hunting. 1/8" target cross hairs are the finest and coupled with a 1/8" adjustment give the most "control" however the reticle can get lost if not shooting against a white backround. a 6x24 nikon or 4200 bushnell works very well for this type of shooting and price range. a used 6.5x20 leo v3 with varmit reticle would be even better.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 09:12
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
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I have had the 20x SS and and 8.5-25x50 Leupold Mark 4 and a Bushnell 4-16x40. The up side of the 20x is that during daylight hours it gives awesome magnification and will work very well for target shooting.  The down side of the 20x SS is that it is difficult to use for hunting or in low light, however it can be done but the small exit eye pupil makes the scope look grey in low light same as it would for any other 20x with a 42mm objective. With a variable power scope you can dial the power down as it gets dark and with a variable scope you can dial the power down to deal with mirage on really hot days. My son now has the 8.5-25x50 Leupold Mark 4 and a couple of years ago we were hunting late anterless rifle season and I had a 10x M3 Leupold Mk4 I could have made the shot on a group of deer 600 yds out but he could tell through the 25x that one was a young buck where I could not see any horns at 10x and it was antlerless only season. So given the experience I have had I would recommend you consider saving up for one of the following:
LEU60080 Leupold%206.5-20x50%20Mark%204%20LR/T%2030mm%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Leupold 6.5-20x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • 70 MOA internal adjustment 
  • Tactical Milling Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
SWFA: $1,149.95
More%20Info...
164200 IOR%2016x42%20Tactical%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 IOR 16x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
  • 100 MOA internal adjust
  • MP-8
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Free 2.5" Sun Shade w/ Purchase
SWFA: $864.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
654305MD Bushnell%204.5-30x50%20Elite%206500%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Bushnell 4.5-30x50 Elite 6500 30mm Rifle Scope
  • 50 MOA internal adjust
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Rainguard
  • Free SunShade
  • Bushnell Free Waterproof Jacket Coupon
SWFA: $899.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
There are other acceptable IOR and Leupold scopes but these represent the least expensive that might really be a noticable step up. The Bushnell 6500 while not a true tactical should have knobs that you can dial in correction with but should have superb glass and a very flexable range of magnification also I believe that it has 80 moa of internal adjustment.  The amount of internal adjustment a scope has becomes very important after you get past 600 yds. IOR does have better glass than the Leupold but the Leupold is very battle proven to be reliable and has excellent customer service. Once you get over the thousand dollar mark though you have to consider Nightforce and U.S. Optics and for those who win the lottery S&B. The Leupold 4.5-14x50 duplex is under $1000. but while it has 100 moa of internal adjustment it is only 4x more than what you have now. The dilema becomes when you get to the $1200 of the 6.5-20 Mk4 you really are better off to go with the Nightforce 5.5-22x 56 (or 50 your choice). I'm thinking if you have outgrown the 10x SS it's really time for a major jump into the big league probably the Nightforce 5.5-22 maby a U.S. Optics and I havent been able to afford them yet but that's where I'm headed as my current best is a Leu Mk 4 3.5-10 x40 FFP and while nice up close I could use a lot more magnification.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/17/2008 at 16:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 12:12
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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great points!  I'm leaning toward the Nikon Monarchs with the nikplex or the Bushnell Elite 4200 (the 30mm target version 6-24) with mildot.  The reticle looks pretty fine at the cross, anybody have any expierences with these?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 13:02
cyborg View Drop Down
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God of Wind

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For the target application I would go with an IOR the reticle is fantastic. The 3-18 will be very good here. I would consider a scope with a second focal plane first though, as the target picture will increase while the reticle size would not.

Edited by cyborg - August/17/2008 at 13:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 15:49
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13868
426245T Bushnell%206-24x50%20Elite%204200%2030mm%20Rifle%20Scope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Bushnell 6-24x50 Elite 4200 30mm Rifle Scope
  • 50 moa internal adjust
  • 12x Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rainguard
  • Side Focus
  • Free 5" Sun Shade w/ Purchase
  • Bushnell Free Waterproof Jacket Coupon
SWFA: $569.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
8429 Nikon%206-24x50%20Monarch%20Riflescope%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 Nikon 6-24x50 Monarch Riflescope
  • 34 MOA internal adjust
  • BDC
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • Target Knobs
  • Free Nikon Sun Shade w/ Purchase
SWFA: $649.95
More%20Info... Buy%20Now
Either of these will have fairly nice glass,  I have been happy with my 4200 4-16x40 but the down side of these is they are not true tactical scopes like the IOR or the Leupold Mk4 and they will not have as much internal adjustment for extreme long range (past 600 yds).
 
As for the 3-18 IOR its a great scope but at about $1500. I think the money would be better spent on a 5.5-22x56 Nightforce.  The Fixed power 16x IOR on the other hand at $864.95 is almost in the price range of the scopes he is considering but it is a true tactical tough scope with a great reticle great glass and it has 100 moa of internal adjustment so it will get out past that magic thousand yards.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/17/2008 at 16:01
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 16:28
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Resident Redneck

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.308 Federal 168 gr Sierra Matchking
Range
yds
Path
in
ComeUp
clicks
Velocity
fps
Energy
ft/lbs
Momentum
lb ft/s
ToF
sec
Windage
in
Windage
clicks
Optimal
Game Wgt
Muzzle -1.5 Infinity 2650 2807 68.14 0.000 0.0 NaN 904
50 -0.1 1 2556 2611 65.73 0.058 0.2 1 812
100 0.0 0 2464 2427 63.37 0.117 0.7 3 727
150 -1.3 3 2375 2254 61.06 0.179 1.7 4 651
200 -4.2 8 2287 2091 58.81 0.244 3.1 6 581
250 -8.8 13 2201 1937 56.61 0.311 4.9 7 518
300 -15.1 19 2117 1791 54.44 0.380 7.1 9 461
350 -23.4 26 2035 1654 52.32 0.453 9.9 11 409
400 -33.8 32 1954 1526 50.24 0.528 13.2 13 363
450 -46.5 39 1875 1406 48.23 0.606 17.0 14 321
500 -61.6 47 1799 1294 46.26 0.688 21.4 16 283
550 -79.4 55 1725 1189 44.36 0.773 26.5 18 249
600 -100.2 64 1653 1092 42.51 0.862 32.1 20 220
650 -124.1 73 1584 1002 40.72 0.955 38.5 23 193
700 -151.5 83 1517 920 39.01 1.052 45.6 25 170
750 -182.7 93 1453 844 37.37 1.153 53.4 27 149
800 -218.0 104 1392 775 35.81 1.258 62.0 30 131
850 -257.7 116 1335 713 34.34 1.368 71.4 32 116
900 -302.4 128 1282 657 32.97 1.483 81.7 35 102
950 -352.3 142 1233 607 31.70 1.602 92.7 37 91
1000 -408.0 156 1187 563 30.52 1.727 104.6 40 81
So 156  1/4 moa clicks is 39 MOA and you can figure that half of the adjustment is below your 100 yd zero and the other half is above  unless you use a plus 20 MOA base or Burris Signatrue rings with plus 20 MOA.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/17/2008 at 16:40
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