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A tale of two scopes...and rifles.

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tejas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A tale of two scopes...and rifles.
    Posted: March/22/2011 at 23:41
    The first and eldest of these two rifles is an Armalite AR-10A4, Burris PEPR mount, Trijicon 2.5-10X56 green mildot and Harris bipod. I've been using Barnes Vortex 165 grain TTSX ammo in it. I have had it in its current configuration for a couple of years. The second is a Browning Bar in .270 WSM, DNZ Game Reaper one piece mount and Vortex Viper PST 1-4X24. It is brand new. I know what your thinking - He should've put the Trijicon on the Browning and the Vortex on the AR. Well, maybe i will. The purpose of both of them is hog hunting although I like to tear holes in paper at the range once in a while too. I normally hunt off of my ATV in the south Texas brush, pretty much exclusively at night. I don't want to carry my rifles in the gun rack because they are constantly getting jostled and besides-you can't shoot it if you aren't carrying it. Both these rifles have safari slings.
    Lets look at these two rigs with the clear understanding that I am not an expert by any means.
Armalite plusses: Semi auto, very reliable, very accurate, cheap ammo, easy to clean (for a semi auto) Trijicon scope is bright, clear and absolutely lethal with that tiny green dot in the center. The bipod is nice for when you have to sneak up on foot and take a shot. Its disadvantages are few, but important. It's heavy and has lots of square metal edges that constantly poke and prod you. Did I mention that it's heavy? Honestly it's a great gun and I love it other than the fact it just beats the sh*t out of you over time.
    Now the Browning. Plusses: Semi auto, supposedly reliable (time will tell) light, balanced. I love the pop of the 270 WSM. Vortex scope is sharp and clear. The reticle will turn down plenty low enough which is something I was worried about. It is small and light which is what I wanted. To keep the weight down it is not equipped with a bipod. I carried a shooting stick in my gun rack. Now for the minuses, but let me mention this first: this gun cost a little over half what the Armalite cost. Ammo is expensive and difficult to find (my fault I know) not as accurate as the Armalite, a real pain to clean the gas system. I really don't care much for the reticle on this scope. The illumination is fine, it's the shape. The bold outside edges overwhelm the center dot making it difficult to aim with precision at nighttime and I really, really hate walking in the brush after a boar. 
    Here is the bottom line: if I can find a factory load that will shoot well out of the Browning, i will move the Trijicon scope to it and start using it. That scope is larger and heavier than the Vortex, but for hog hunting, it's a tough scope to beat. I like that Vortex scope a lot though and will put it on the Armalite which it IS better suited for anyway.
           
    
    Above is the Armalite with the Trijicon.        This is the Browning with the Vortex though you can't see them well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 00:00
BAR - B - QUE
Congratulations job well done.  Think about loading your own that takes the sting out of the WSM cartridges cost.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 07:42
Great write up and awesome pictures.Excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tman1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 09:06

Good read and pics, thanks for sharing!Excellent

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midwest_Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 09:17
Sounds like some nice setups. Good post Excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 09:22
I have been shooting a BAR for 15 years, my dad has been shooting his since the late 60s I believe.  Good guns, ours are the older safari style.  In my experience the gas system does not need a lot of maintainence.  They are a pretty clean semi auto, nothing like the di on the ARs. 

I think you will enjoy it, I have always really liked my BAR. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 11:13
Tejas, you described exactly why I went with a more potent chambering in the AR15 platform rather than going with a larger, heavier AR10 based rifle for my hog hunting.  I shaved 1.5 - 2 pounds of rifle weight in doing so.  I chose 6.8 SPC for a variety of reasons, but several other chamberings (6.5 Grendel, .264 LBC, .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, etc.) would work well on hogs.  In order to further shave weight and minimize protuberances and sharp edges, I went with a mid length 18" barrel, a lightwight, round hand guard with only a single rail on top (Troy TRX), a "slick side" (no dust cover, no forward assist) upper, no BUIS, retractable buttstock, etc.  The result is a potent, nice handling rifle for fast follow-up shots on hogs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 11:24
Did you say 450 Bushmaster?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunterwingler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 11:46
nice looking set ups man
I wasn't upset about the black cat crossing my path this morning but mouthing "your fu@#ed" as he passed was just rude.

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tejas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 19:03
    Thanx for all your input and suggestions. SVT,  that is a good looking rig. Is that the new SS? Rifledude, I looked hard at getting the 450 Marlin upper from here last year.    http://www.ar-10-rifles.com/index.php
Guess I'm glad i didn't now that I've spent the money on the Browning to "get lighter" I had ordered some 270 WSM ammo last week which arrived today. These include the Federal 110 grain Barnes TTSX, the Winchester 150 grain Silvertip and Blackhills 140 grain accubond. I had already tried the Federal 130 grain accubond and the Winchester 150 grain XP3. Wasn't impressed with either. Hopefully the BAR will like one of these better. I'm hoping to get 2 inch groups at 100 yds or better. Urimaginary friend is right-I should start reloading.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 19:16
Good stories, good guns, good hog (dead)...
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 19:20
Whoa!!!   Great hog and photos!!!    
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 19:26
Yea you really have to with some calibers because the ammo is so darn expensive.  If you can find Winchester Power Max try a box of that.  Also Horniday is loading ammo now and I like their bullets I reload their AMAX bullets a lot.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 21:54
yep thats the new SS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2011 at 22:46
I love the 6.8 for hog hunting..
I handload 95g Barnes TTSX

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Hogs don't like it much


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2011 at 15:42
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Yea you really have to with some calibers because the ammo is so darn expensive.  If you can find Winchester Power Max try a box of that.  Also Horniday is loading ammo now and I like their bullets I reload their AMAX bullets a lot.  

+1

The .30 cal 208gr Amax is great- stock up when I can because they seem to be perpetually out of stock and with price increases every time a new shipment comes in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2011 at 15:49
Oops! Meant to include this in last post- Great rigs and hogs, guys!
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tejas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 12:42
    
    Well, I moved the Trijicon scope to the BAR and took my three new, and part of an existing  box of 270 WSM to the range this morning to try and find the best factory load. This is a whopping 150.00 or so worth of ammo. Here they are as mentioned above: Federal 110 gr. Barnes TTSX, Black Hills 140 gr. Accubond, Winchester 150 gr. Silvertip, Federal 130 gr. Nosler Partition. As I expected, the 110 gr. Federals didn't "zero" anywhere near where the other rounds did, so if i shot this, I would have to shoot it exclusively, or write down POI adjustments. It ended up not making a difference. The Black Hills ammo shot a good bit better than the others so that's what I'll be using. I averaged around 2" groups @ 100 yds. with it and 3" or more with all the other loads. Thats not spectacular, but I'm not a spectacular shot either and I was using a sand bag, not a lead sled. Anyway, it's good enough for a semi auto hunting rifle. The recoil of the 270 WSM isn't bad out of the Browning. I would say its about like a 308 out of a bolt action. The 270 WSM out of a bolt action would probably grow wearisome to shoot after ten or so shots. It definitely would grow wearisome on the wallet.   
    The Vortex scope on the AR is a nice fit. Look's cool too. This scope would certainly make a good hunting scope even if that isn't it's intended purpose. The shape of the reticle, which I didn't care much for at first, grows on you. This rifle has always been a tack driver, even with cheap military surplus ammo. Moving this scope to it didn't hurt that any. It still shoots great, even with such a drop off in magnification.
    If I were buying a scope solely for hog hunting, I'd still buy the Trijicon in 2.5-10X56. Its bigger, bulkier and heavier than a lot of others. If that's a problem, consider a Trijicon in a different model like the 3-9X40. The reticle on these what makes them so good for night use. If you want a "tactical" scope you can also use for hog hunting, You can do a lot worse than the Vortex Viper PST 1-4X24. 
     
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tejas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 12:43
 CCoker, that's a good looking rifle. Nice pig too.
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tejas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 13:27


Edited by tejas - March/26/2011 at 13:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 13:37
I think those are much better rifle & scope pairings, tejas.

One observation, though... is it just the angle in the pic, or is your objective bell touching the barrel on the BAR?  If it is, you need to either move the scope forward a little or get higher rings.  Since the scope is right next to where the barrel starts tapering down, I'm betting you wouldn't have to move the scope very far forward to clear the barrel if it's touching.  If you ever do any prone shooting, you'd probably need to move the scope further forward anyway. 
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 14:22
Wow...what a cool thread!! Excellent pics and commentary, Gents!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote medic52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 16:41
That was great Thanks for sharing nice hog too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 17:33
I have wanted to try a BAR lightweight stalker in 308 for sometime

I got a cool pig gun coming soon
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tejas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 20:29
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

I think those are much better rifle & scope pairings, tejas.

One observation, though... is it just the angle in the pic, or is your objective bell touching the barrel on the BAR?  If it is, you need to either move the scope forward a little or get higher rings.  Since the scope is right next to where the barrel starts tapering down, I'm betting you wouldn't have to move the scope very far forward to clear the barrel if it's touching.  If you ever do any prone shooting, you'd probably need to move the scope further forward anyway. 


    It's an optical conclusion. There is around 1/16 of an inch between the Butler Creek cover and the barrel. I WAS worried that barrel whip would cause them to touch but finally decided that that close to the receiver the barrel simply couldn't move that much. Hope i'm right.
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