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A Shot In The Dark

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Optics GrassHopper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV-PressPass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2012 at 13:25
This sounds like a fantastic time. I'm trying to convince the range near me to do some night stages like this.

I'm really torn whether I'd rather use my NVD-eotech setup and run in the dark with IR, or just hit the full lumens out of the flashlight and try to run it as a regular course.

How important do you feel tritium sights are on a pistol when you're using a light? I've been looking for some meprolight ones to put on my Jericho 941
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2012 at 13:38
 
 
    Naughty
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2012 at 09:39
How important do you feel tritium sights are on a pistol when you're using a light? I've been looking for some meprolight ones to put on my Jericho 941
 
I'm using Tru-Glow sights with tritium, and a mounted light light on the pistol. Something I'm finding out is that different lighting conditions have different effects on your sighting ability.
In stage one of the pistol stage, tritium sights probably would have been better as there was enough ambiant light to see the targets and the flashlight tended to wash the sights out, and they were just a blurr. A light wasn't really needed, since you could see the targets and your tritium sights. Stage two of the pistol stage was different, as it had been lighted so that some targets were visable and some were not. You had to have a light to find and indentify the targets in the dark, and one of those was a hostage. Tritium sights were useless and never showed up, but the sights showed up with all the lights in the stage and on the pistol.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
 
An illuminated retical is a must for a rifle scope, as a black dot is difficult to see on a steel grey target in the dark.
 
One guy in my squad used a starlight scope on his rifle with no magnification. He had a good time, but he left 5 targets. 
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV-PressPass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2012 at 09:55
Really? The guy with the NV missed targets eh? Did you notice if he was using an illumination or any sort of external IR assistance?

I like the idea of a fiber-optic/tritium combo. That's part of the idea behind the Viking Tactics sights right?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2012 at 10:09

His optic was a 3rd generation light intensifer (starlightscope), and he had no other source of light other than the ambiant light of the area.

I'm not familiar with the Viking Tactics sights. Just looking at your pic., but are the tritium sights below the fiber optics?
On the TruGlo sigts the tritium is integrated with the fiber optics. They are longer than normal.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV-PressPass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2012 at 11:04
I've only got a Gen II setup personally, but use an IR illumintor with it. Not that great if you're trying to be special forces, but for the night shoots I've done I find the targets come up quite bright because of the reflection of the IR light.

The Viking Tactics sights are built around the idea that most people naturally shoot high in low light and shoot as closer ranges. I couldn't understand that idea, but one of my army buddies said its true.

There's some kind of rule they go by:
"Lights low, hold low. Lights high, hold high."

So the tritium comes up when the lights are out and replaces the Fiber optic setup. They might be a little gimmicky, but they sure are a neat design.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2013 at 12:26
Well season 2 has started at knob Creek Range, and we had our first matches of the season on March 23. We had an actual 3-gun day match (if one stage can be called a match) that involved pistol, rifle, and shotgun in the stage. I learned I'm easily distracted with a short term memory, but it was still loads of fun.
 
The night matches were as usuall, 3 seperate stages for rifle, pistol, and shotgun.
I got in a relay with 2 active duty military, another police officer and former military, a firefighter/firearms instructor and former Mud Pie (MP), so we made it a learning experience for all of us. I was kind of gaming so I won't cover my escapades, But the 2 active duty guys were playing with what they use at work, and that was a learning experience, especially for one.
The one active duty guy discribes himself as a gear queer (GQ) and always has something new to use, be it clothing, boots, or equipment. For the night shoot, he was using the latest NVD with a head harness instead of any kind of visible light source to identify targets. Here is what happened, and what we (he) learned.
The shotgun was our first stage. The course was simple; locate and neutralize all the targets (steel) in 2 shooting bays. Our GQ decided to use the NVD over the weak eye and aim the shotgun with his strong eye. He could identify targets, but he couldn't see his front sight and had difficulty hitting targets. The solution was to put the NVD over the strong eye, that way he could see targets and sights.
The rifle was our second stage. From the start you moved to different stages and engaged different size and shaped steel targets, with one position involving one of those danged barrier boards with the different size shape and height holes in it to shoot through (a real challenge to get barrel, light and sight through) Our GQ again used his NVD on the head harness and a laser designator to aim his rifle. I don't know which eye the NVD was over, but the results weren't good. The solution he found was to mount the NVD in line with an aimpoint (the NVD was modular with different mounting systems), then finding, aiming, and hitting targets was easy.
The last stage was the pistol, and it was a jungle walk with shoot and no shoot targets, both steel and paper. Here our GQ excelled. He mounted the NVD over his strong eye and used a pulsating infrared laser on his pistol. He had no trouble finding and hitting targets.
All in all it was a fun an interesting night shoot, and I'm ready to go again.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2013 at 16:13
Sounds like an informative blast! Had big fun and learn a bunch too!   
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2013 at 07:06
I'm starting to settle in on my equipment selection on the guns. The other gear is still in development, as to what I need to carry mags, lights, ammo, and weapons. The lights on the shotgun and rifle are the same but different brands, LED 650 lumen maximum with micro switches, strobe, and lower settings, in offset picatiny mounts. The fiber optic front sight on the shotgun is easy to find and fast to use since the light lights it up like a beacon. The IOR 1.5-8x26 is great on the rifle; I just need to remember that I can adjust the power when needed. You don't need much illumination of the reticle, but it would be nice if the center dot was illuminated.
With a scope I haven't seen a need for a laser on the rifle, but one thing that was learned in this match, is that open sights and lights alone didn't perform well. The targets were smaller and farther out this time, so magnification was a plus.
This was the first time I thought a laser on the pistol would have been a plus. I got so much light reflecting off the white hostage target I couldn't focus on the front sight.My first shot came too close to the hostage target for my comfort, and I spent to much time putting rounds on the target to ensure it was neutralized.
More thoughts later (if I can generate them).
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2014 at 14:12
Wow, over a year (I think) since my last night match.
The 3-gun club was absorbed into the Ky. Practical Defense League (KPDL) and only 6 matches a year are scheduled with only 2 night matches out of 6. I missed the other night match this year, so it's been a while.
Equipment problems were plentiful this time. My pistol light went on strike a couple of weeks ago and I found out the day of the match that the replacement light and pistol wouldn't fit in the holster. Fortunately the replacement light A MX-6 with a grip switch did fit my duty pistol and another holster that I had. The bad part, was the night sights are all but shot on that pistol and the new set isn't in yet. Night sights weren't an issue though, since lights could be used in all stages. The mounts for my light came loose on my shotgun and it had to be tightened up. Luckily I had no issues with the rifle.

There was a total of 5 stages, 1 pistol and shotgun stage, 2 stages with just pistol, 1 stage with pistol and rifle, and 1 stage with just the rifle. All the stages were challenging, fun and short, except for the pistol rifle stage (way too many paper rifle targets that had to be scored and pasted) that created a bottleneck.

My favorite stage was the pistol/shotgun stage. You had 4 paper pistol targets and 5 shotgun targets. The shotgun targets were 2 clays and 3 pepper poppers. The clays were pretty close so it was easy to miss them if you didn't take the time to aim. The shotgun was staged with only 4 rounds in it and an empty chamber so you had to reload the shotgun to finish. This was a little challenging without being too complicated.

The match was pitched more as scenario based practice than a competition for safety and educational reasons, and I learned a few more things. I'm not always gripping the pistol tight enough, the grip switch showed me that. Scan for more targets when you think you're done, my one and only penality. And yes IOR scopes do tunnel on low power.

I had fun and I am learning how to shoot in the dark. I came in 5th out of 21 which aint great but it's not bad for half blind, old fat man.


Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2014 at 17:06
I think that's stellar results considering it's been a year and all the equipment issues...
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2014 at 17:18
And BF isn't getting younger. Are ya Lynn?
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2014 at 17:37
at least the flashlight didn't shine off his bald head and blind him this time...  Whistling
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2014 at 17:40
Whoa!!!

I resemble that, F you Bud!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2014 at 20:31
Roll on Floor Laughing   I know....
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2014 at 08:56
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

at least the flashlight didn't shine off his bald head and blind him this time...  Whistling

We HAVE to wear 2 cylume sticks during the match (one in front and one in back) for safety reasons (no shooting at cylume sticks allowed). Mine were particulary bright Sat. night. It was so dark, that to navigate I would hold one over my head and let the light reflect off my head so I could see where I was goingBucky
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2014 at 11:34
See, Can I call them or what?!?!?!? Smile
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2014 at 17:39
Saturday night I had the pleasure to watch Beltfed in action on the night pistol course. The range used for this shoot is deep in the bottom of a narrow valley. Man it was dark down there. Being cloudy and 20 degrees didn't help matters at all. Not as fast as some he was more efficient with less misses making for better times. Everyone had to wear Cyalume sticks for safety. When the shooting groups moved from one station to the next it looked like a line of gnome miners walking to work. It was a lot of fun and all the others shooters were friendly and courteous. All were having a fun time.
Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2014 at 20:23
I've always wanted to meet Lynn and see that range and the machine gun annual.  Bucky
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2014 at 10:07
If you go you need to be prepared for some climbing. The 75 ft from the parking lot to the bottom where this range lies drops 45 ft in elevation.
Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.
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