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A Shot In The Dark

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2012 at 19:31
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You let your wife play with yur scope?!?!!?
 
Actually that sounds like my grandma Arley.
 
She had two nicknames.... Big Red and Strongarm Arley.  She was known to accidently twist the doorknob off of more than one locked door! Shocked
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 09:07
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Roll on Floor LaughingYou crack me up Bud...........
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 10:27
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But it was the truth!!!  Honest and funny!Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 14:00
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She must have been fun at Christmas with the chestnuts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2012 at 16:01
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I think she could crack Macadamia nuts with two fingers!
 
Actuall she had a huge pecan tree in her yard and she was forever cracking them and eating the meat while she worked in the garden.  I remember once she got mad about something and literally pulerized the two pecans she had it her hand!!!  Scary old Puritan woman she was!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2012 at 15:04
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Almost forgot; I used a Mouseberg 930 JM Pro in the shotgun match. I mounted a 500 lumen flashlight with a remote swich at the barrel/magazine support, using a short Picatinny rail and offset mount. The light ran along the barrel with the offset mount, and when I turned it on, it lit up the fiber optic front sight like a Christmas tree light. It was very fast; I was finding and sighting on targets faster than I could think to press the trigger. I like this setupBig Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2012 at 00:36
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Shooting with a flashlight, Hmmm... as for me, in a "situation", I'd be shooting AT the lights.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2012 at 09:57
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Shooting with a flashlight, Hmmm... as for me, in a "situation", I'd be shooting AT the lights.
Can'tshoot what you can't see. Can't hit if you can't see your sights. Ever try hitting a bright light shinning on you?
If you have never shot in the dark, you really do not know how difficult it is.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2012 at 12:56
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Shooting with a flashlight, Hmmm... as for me, in a "situation", I'd be shooting AT the lights.
Can'tshoot what you can't see. Can't hit if you can't see your sights. Ever try hitting a bright light shinning on you?
If you have never shot in the dark, you really do not know how difficult it is.
The competitions you've been attending sound like a lot of fun. Practice makes perfect.
My comments don't have much to do with your competency or competition.

One can effectively shoot in the dark- even pitch black- with practice.  One can get somewhat proficient naturally aiming w/out sights with a variety of firearms in day or night and probably should.
You can hit what you can't see. You can hit what you can see better.

My rich uncle used to have me engage targets in the dark without a light.
I did pretty good.
One learns to shoot AT lights... who sees who first? Do they get to shoot at your flashlight or your muzzle blast?
One can also learn where to shoot from just listening to very soft sounds.
 know a former nug who could tell stories about havin' a smoke at night and then hearing the busy bees... buzz  buzz buzz buzz around your ears and then... the bang bang bang, so somebody over on that hill half a click away could shoot at cigarette glows at night. They didn't turn on their flashlight.
 One can even have spotlights sweeping you and they'll never see you in the dirt if you don't move or show them your face or they don't get a reflection from something shiny, but you see them. Pucker factor.

As before, the competition sounds like a lot of fun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2012 at 13:56
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I've taught a lot of police to shoot in the dark. I've taught a lot of police to search buildings in the dark. I've been trained to shoot in the dark. I've trained in force on force encounters with active shooters. If you can identify your target and see your sights in the dark, then you are in good shape, but it's really just deminished light. If you can't see your target or your sights, you NEED a light. You can't call your bullits back, and they can't distinguish between friend and foe. You can practice point shooting all you want, but under stress your skill deminishes, and if you can't see your target, your depending on luck, especially when bullits are flying in the dark. It is better to have a light in the dark than to try and religh on some false sense of hiding in the dark. This isn't just theory, but fact proven by experience.
War zones are different from your home, neighborhood, ally, or office building. In a war zone the enemy is over there somewhere, and if I think I know where he is, I can use massive amounts of firepower to neutralize him if he gives me a chance. If I'm on home ground and I shoot at a bump in the night, I damn well better know who made the bump, why they are making the bump, and where they are.
One other thing, shooting at a lit cigarette isn't the same as aiming at a 500 lumin light shining in yiour face.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2012 at 15:57
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Good info Lynn,Thanks........
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2012 at 12:26
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Shot the last night match of the year over the weekend. Had a ball, and it was a tough match, especially the rifle stage.
Murphy is alive and well in so many different forms, and that has almost gotten to be one of the fun parts of this match for me. 
Shot the rifle stage first. Instead of the ISPC targets, we had 30 steel targets on wood stakes from 25 to 35 yards. Most of the targets were 4" in diameter, a few 6" and 4 12" targets, and stretched across a wide arc. You shot from inside one of the range trucks through the gapeing hole in the windshield (courtesy of a fallen tree), and the truck was covered with a thick layer of dried mud. Of course, each target left standing adds 5 seconds to your score.
When I shot the course, I fired 2 rounds and then nothing. Tap rack click, what the...., tap rack click, oh snap. Pulled the mag, rattle rattle; bad mag, changed mags, and started shooting. 5 or 6 rounds and I can't see the targets for the dust coming up off the hood. Had the scope set at 6x and had no field of view, but it wasn't hard to hit em when I could find em or see em. Had to shift my position to get to the targets on the right. Reload and look for more targets, shift position,and shot 2 or 3 more and I was done.
I'm going to have to learn to stop fighting the clock. I should have taken the time to lower the power of the scope to increase my field of view. Fighting the clock cost me a target on the shotgun stage too; just walked pass it, and didn't see it. It's artificial stress that I'm failing to control. Had no issues with the pistol stages.
All in all, it was a fun and educational match. It's a shame this was the last one for the year; especially since the sun sets earlier now. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2012 at 12:43
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your sun been setting for several years now...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2012 at 13:09
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That does sound like a ton of fun!  I wish I could spend a month or two under Lynn's tutelage.  Both on the work bench and teh range.  I'm sure he has a ton of knowledge to pass on...one of them I forgot more than you'll ever know guys!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2012 at 13:10
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

your sun been setting for several years now...

My bud, it sure is easy to Pokeryou todayBandito
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2012 at 13:25
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This sounds like a fantastic time. I'm trying to convince the range near me to do some night stages like this.

I'm really torn whether I'd rather use my NVD-eotech setup and run in the dark with IR, or just hit the full lumens out of the flashlight and try to run it as a regular course.

How important do you feel tritium sights are on a pistol when you're using a light? I've been looking for some meprolight ones to put on my Jericho 941
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2012 at 13:38
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    Naughty
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2012 at 09:39
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How important do you feel tritium sights are on a pistol when you're using a light? I've been looking for some meprolight ones to put on my Jericho 941
 
I'm using Tru-Glow sights with tritium, and a mounted light light on the pistol. Something I'm finding out is that different lighting conditions have different effects on your sighting ability.
In stage one of the pistol stage, tritium sights probably would have been better as there was enough ambiant light to see the targets and the flashlight tended to wash the sights out, and they were just a blurr. A light wasn't really needed, since you could see the targets and your tritium sights. Stage two of the pistol stage was different, as it had been lighted so that some targets were visable and some were not. You had to have a light to find and indentify the targets in the dark, and one of those was a hostage. Tritium sights were useless and never showed up, but the sights showed up with all the lights in the stage and on the pistol.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
 
An illuminated retical is a must for a rifle scope, as a black dot is difficult to see on a steel grey target in the dark.
 
One guy in my squad used a starlight scope on his rifle with no magnification. He had a good time, but he left 5 targets. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2012 at 09:55
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Really? The guy with the NV missed targets eh? Did you notice if he was using an illumination or any sort of external IR assistance?

I like the idea of a fiber-optic/tritium combo. That's part of the idea behind the Viking Tactics sights right?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2012 at 10:09
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His optic was a 3rd generation light intensifer (starlightscope), and he had no other source of light other than the ambiant light of the area.

I'm not familiar with the Viking Tactics sights. Just looking at your pic., but are the tritium sights below the fiber optics?
On the TruGlo sigts the tritium is integrated with the fiber optics. They are longer than normal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/25/2012 at 11:04
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I've only got a Gen II setup personally, but use an IR illumintor with it. Not that great if you're trying to be special forces, but for the night shoots I've done I find the targets come up quite bright because of the reflection of the IR light.

The Viking Tactics sights are built around the idea that most people naturally shoot high in low light and shoot as closer ranges. I couldn't understand that idea, but one of my army buddies said its true.

There's some kind of rule they go by:
"Lights low, hold low. Lights high, hold high."

So the tritium comes up when the lights are out and replaces the Fiber optic setup. They might be a little gimmicky, but they sure are a neat design.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2013 at 12:26
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Well season 2 has started at knob Creek Range, and we had our first matches of the season on March 23. We had an actual 3-gun day match (if one stage can be called a match) that involved pistol, rifle, and shotgun in the stage. I learned I'm easily distracted with a short term memory, but it was still loads of fun.
 
The night matches were as usuall, 3 seperate stages for rifle, pistol, and shotgun.
I got in a relay with 2 active duty military, another police officer and former military, a firefighter/firearms instructor and former Mud Pie (MP), so we made it a learning experience for all of us. I was kind of gaming so I won't cover my escapades, But the 2 active duty guys were playing with what they use at work, and that was a learning experience, especially for one.
The one active duty guy discribes himself as a gear queer (GQ) and always has something new to use, be it clothing, boots, or equipment. For the night shoot, he was using the latest NVD with a head harness instead of any kind of visible light source to identify targets. Here is what happened, and what we (he) learned.
The shotgun was our first stage. The course was simple; locate and neutralize all the targets (steel) in 2 shooting bays. Our GQ decided to use the NVD over the weak eye and aim the shotgun with his strong eye. He could identify targets, but he couldn't see his front sight and had difficulty hitting targets. The solution was to put the NVD over the strong eye, that way he could see targets and sights.
The rifle was our second stage. From the start you moved to different stages and engaged different size and shaped steel targets, with one position involving one of those danged barrier boards with the different size shape and height holes in it to shoot through (a real challenge to get barrel, light and sight through) Our GQ again used his NVD on the head harness and a laser designator to aim his rifle. I don't know which eye the NVD was over, but the results weren't good. The solution he found was to mount the NVD in line with an aimpoint (the NVD was modular with different mounting systems), then finding, aiming, and hitting targets was easy.
The last stage was the pistol, and it was a jungle walk with shoot and no shoot targets, both steel and paper. Here our GQ excelled. He mounted the NVD over his strong eye and used a pulsating infrared laser on his pistol. He had no trouble finding and hitting targets.
All in all it was a fun an interesting night shoot, and I'm ready to go again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2013 at 16:13
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Sounds like an informative blast! Had big fun and learn a bunch too!   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2013 at 07:06
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I'm starting to settle in on my equipment selection on the guns. The other gear is still in development, as to what I need to carry mags, lights, ammo, and weapons. The lights on the shotgun and rifle are the same but different brands, LED 650 lumen maximum with micro switches, strobe, and lower settings, in offset picatiny mounts. The fiber optic front sight on the shotgun is easy to find and fast to use since the light lights it up like a beacon. The IOR 1.5-8x26 is great on the rifle; I just need to remember that I can adjust the power when needed. You don't need much illumination of the reticle, but it would be nice if the center dot was illuminated.
With a scope I haven't seen a need for a laser on the rifle, but one thing that was learned in this match, is that open sights and lights alone didn't perform well. The targets were smaller and farther out this time, so magnification was a plus.
This was the first time I thought a laser on the pistol would have been a plus. I got so much light reflecting off the white hostage target I couldn't focus on the front sight.My first shot came too close to the hostage target for my comfort, and I spent to much time putting rounds on the target to ensure it was neutralized.
More thoughts later (if I can generate them).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2014 at 14:12
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Wow, over a year (I think) since my last night match.
The 3-gun club was absorbed into the Ky. Practical Defense League (KPDL) and only 6 matches a year are scheduled with only 2 night matches out of 6. I missed the other night match this year, so it's been a while.
Equipment problems were plentiful this time. My pistol light went on strike a couple of weeks ago and I found out the day of the match that the replacement light and pistol wouldn't fit in the holster. Fortunately the replacement light A MX-6 with a grip switch did fit my duty pistol and another holster that I had. The bad part, was the night sights are all but shot on that pistol and the new set isn't in yet. Night sights weren't an issue though, since lights could be used in all stages. The mounts for my light came loose on my shotgun and it had to be tightened up. Luckily I had no issues with the rifle.

There was a total of 5 stages, 1 pistol and shotgun stage, 2 stages with just pistol, 1 stage with pistol and rifle, and 1 stage with just the rifle. All the stages were challenging, fun and short, except for the pistol rifle stage (way too many paper rifle targets that had to be scored and pasted) that created a bottleneck.

My favorite stage was the pistol/shotgun stage. You had 4 paper pistol targets and 5 shotgun targets. The shotgun targets were 2 clays and 3 pepper poppers. The clays were pretty close so it was easy to miss them if you didn't take the time to aim. The shotgun was staged with only 4 rounds in it and an empty chamber so you had to reload the shotgun to finish. This was a little challenging without being too complicated.

The match was pitched more as scenario based practice than a competition for safety and educational reasons, and I learned a few more things. I'm not always gripping the pistol tight enough, the grip switch showed me that. Scan for more targets when you think you're done, my one and only penality. And yes IOR scopes do tunnel on low power.

I had fun and I am learning how to shoot in the dark. I came in 5th out of 21 which aint great but it's not bad for half blind, old fat man.


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