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A plea to Bushnell for the 4500/3500 scopes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2015 at 00:18
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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....and I would like your feedback please good and bad to see if we can change this current plague of crappy low light reticles. I recently went to a LGS and took a look at Bushnell's new 4500 2.5-10 x 40 which happens to be my favorite model. They put newly designed turrets that are slightly taller than the previous ones and they are nice and solid, appear to made od some type of steel (hopefully SS) and according to Bushnell's website they are zero resettable. All good so far. Now I decide to look through it and damn it, the same duplex reticle as previous models, which in my opinion stink in low light. So I'm thinking maybe, just maybe if enough people here share my opinion, maybe we collectively can get them to offer this otherwise great scope with a reticle that allow their optics to work to their fullest potential. I'm thinking, and this is where I'd like as many opinions as I can get, to give them the message that their duplex reticle is fine for punching holes in paper, but stops being a good aiming device due to the thinnest of the standard duplex reticle. Anyone who hunts whitetails like myself, likes to be able to see a reticle especially if you hunt pines or any other thick areas that are darker than their surrounding open areas. These 4500's and the previous marked 4200's have great optics that are handicapped by a reticle that all but disappears in these dark areas that are usually leading from daytime bedding areas to evening feeding areas. This all goes w/o saying. So Bushnell, please give us a reticle we can see as some of us with aging eyesight could use a thicker reticle anyway. Oh, and while your at it, add a half inch or so of eye relief because the latest popular trend is lighter rifles that naturally kick harder, so 3.75 inches of eye relief would really be appreciated too. You were able to do it with your fantastic 6500 series of scopes so why not continue the positive trend.

Please help me out my OpticsTalk friends as maybe, just maybe they'll listen if enough folks express a similar opinion to mine on how to vastly improve one of the best models in their entire lineup.

Sincerely,

Roy Finn

PS. Some years ago Bushnell made this reticle, which is basically the same as the Firefly but without the glowing material painted on the reticle. Not a bad starting point, IMO.



Edited by Roy Finn - April/13/2015 at 00:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2015 at 08:06
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I have a 4200 2.5X10X50 with the 30mm tube and 4A Ill Ret, of all the scopes I own, that has to be my favorite pure hunting reticle, rarely do I need to use the illumination.  I just wish it had adjustable turrets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2015 at 10:41
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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I've used illuminated reticles myself, but what I'm looking for is a nice reticle that doesn't get short changed by optics that still allow you to see your game animal, but you can't make the shot because the reticle is to thin to see well enough. The two biggest complaints I hear about scopes these days, especially because glass in general keeps getting better, are.........." it's reticle is to thin and I wish it had more eye relief......".

Maybe we can get JGRaider to post up some of his through the scope pics he has of various scopes he owns, one being a pic of a Z-Plex reticle.

All the scope companies seem to be working hard on capturing their piece of the tactical scope market. Bushnell deserves great praise for what they did for the long range guys by going to Pat Sinclair and George Gardner of GA Precision for their advise on a perfect long range hunting scope. The end result was the new Bushnell LRHS that had all the features both those gentlemen suggested to make the perfect tool for getting that job done. What I'm trying to do is to remind them and others, not to forget about us everyday hunters who don't shoot at game in the next zip code, non turret spinners that just want a solid, reliable scope that has more eye relief to address the raising popularity of light weight rifles that recoil more, and a reticle that isn't handicapped by the better glass we're seeing more and more of. Bushnell already has the scope, the 2.5-10 x 40 so they can address the reticle issue easily. They already know that hunters want more ER as evidenced by their 6500 line, so lets try and give them a big nudge and let them know what hunters are really wanting ! ! !

PS, I'm not looking at a scope with a 50mm objective lens. That creates more problems than it solves.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2015 at 10:52
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Seems like a reasonable request but...turret spinning is the current rage. Good luck and I hope, for us hunters, that you succeed in making the bean counters see the light (or reticle in this case!)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2015 at 11:18
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I totally agree with you, Roy, and the shame of it all is Bushnell already has one of the best, if not the best plex reticle designs out there, the 3-2-1 / Firefly that you picture above, if they'd just continue to use it. They don't even need to coat it with the glow in the dark fairy dust; the design is terrific as-is in basic form.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2015 at 11:35
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

I totally agree with you, Roy, and the shame of it all is Bushnell already has one of the best, if not the best plex reticle designs out there, the 3-2-1 / Firefly that you picture above, if they'd just continue to use it. They don't even need to coat it with the glow in the dark fairy dust; the design is terrific as-is in basic form.



The costs involved here to make these simple changes should be minimal especially a simple reticle change. The extra eye relief shouldn't be any huge undertaking either with CAD designers doing a redesign of the ocular assembly. The small investment could easily make that new scope the best all around mid range hunting scope they've ever made...period ! ! !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2015 at 11:49
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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This post wasn't intended to be a " It's Roy's way or the Highway....." gentlemen. Whoever has some pics of other duplex type reticles I want to see them. Like I said earlier, I'd really like to see a pic of a Z-Plex next to an already know reticle for size comparisons. But lets get some reticle pics up guys if you could, it would be greatly appreciated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2015 at 22:54
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The two reasons you cited, short eye relief and thin reticles, are precisely why I don't own Bushnell scopes. Until those two things change for the better, I likely won't own one. The thin crosshairs are okay in broad daylight, but not so in poor light, the very time when the boys normally come out to play.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2015 at 09:30
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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I'm all for better low- light reticles, as there is a dearth of them on the market. Mfg's  have jumped on the ranging reticle bandwagon and have neglected low light performance, with exceptions here and there. Leupold has made great stride in this area, of late and Bushnell seems to have confined their better reticles to their cheaper scopes.

I'm not that fond of scopes with really long eye relief, say 4", as they seem to have issues with eyebox, among other things and the view through them is more tiring than with say, 3.5". Of course, other design parameters affect these qualities, also.
I have several .30-06 rifles and my favorite has a scope with only 3.1" eye relief and I've shot it from every position with all kinds of ammo and it's never tried to give me a new eyebrow. I've had to school new shooters about not stock crawling, or putting their eye really close to the eyepiece, though the same applies to any scope. One lady friend wouldn't listen (with a light kicker rifle) and had to learn the hard way, but didn't bleed from it. She got the message, but never did choose to listen to anything else I had to say, so she's just a memory.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2015 at 11:30
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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I'd agree that a lot of times if a scope has extra long ER, the eye box suffers. However, if you've ever had the chance to gaze through Bushnell's 2.5-16 x 42, the eye box is fine and it has almost 4" of ER. Point being is that if Bushnell extended the ER out to say 3.75 inches on this model that I'm referring to, the 2.5-10 x 40, I think they could do it with ease without adding a huge ocular to the scope either.

To illustrate my point, here is an "example picture" of what the reticle in question is supposed to look like.

Bushnell 4500

Anyone who has looked through a Bushnell scope with the standard duplex will see that their not even close to a true representation of the actual reticle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2015 at 11:37
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Outrider Outrider wrote:


The two reasons you cited, short eye relief and thin reticles , are precisely why I don't own Bushnell scopes. Until those two things change for the better, I likely won't own one. The thin crosshairs are okay in broad daylight, but not so in poor light, the very time when the boys normally come out to play.


Exactly ! !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2015 at 10:52
tahqua View Drop Down
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I always felt the same about the 3-9 4200 and Monarch UCC. The glass was fine but the reticles were poor in low light, especially in cover.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2015 at 19:45
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I always felt the same about the 3-9 4200 and Monarch UCC. The glass was fine but the reticles were poor in low light, especially in cover.


With more and more mid priced scopes upping their glass quality, I'm sure there a lot of Pacific Rim scopes who's glass outlasts their "standard" duplex reticle offerings. I only made this plea to Bushnell because they happen to be my favorite mid priced scope. The glass in the 4200/4500 far outlasts their standard duplex reticles. And I'm still talking about all the states that have the 1/2 hour sunrise/sunset rules. I understand that their are some southern states that allow an hour for sunrise and sunset hunting. Obviously the only way any of these scopes will work in those states is with an illuminated reticle option. Maybe they ( the scope makers ) figure their products are going to be primarily for good light paper punching and they just haven't had enough feedback from hunters to make the necessary changes. But, IMO, this problem of to thin reticles is not the exclusive domain of Bushnell. Leupold has made great advances in glass quality across their hunting scope lines also and yet I find their standard duplex lacking especially when you get into the conditions I described earlier where you are in timber or heavy pines like we have on the east coast. In short, the thin reticles used is not the exclusive domain of Bushnell Elite scopes.
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