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A new toy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 21:42
helo18 View Drop Down
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Just picked up a new rifle. A Marlin 1895GS 45/70. I have always wanted a 45/70. Found a great deal on this one. Brand new. Haven't fired it yet. The question is, do I scope it or just get better open sights?







Edited by helo18 - July/26/2008 at 21:43
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 21:48
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dude are you kidding me you live in montana! no scope needed go old school!
thats a bear stopping sob and damn handy in the dark timber for elk


Edited by pyro6999 - July/26/2008 at 21:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 21:55
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

dude are you kidding me you live in montana! no scope needed go old school!
thats a bear stopping sob and damn handy in the dark timber for elk


I was thinking i would go old school, but I would like to put a fiber optics front sight on it if I am going to do that for faster sight alignment. Can't wait to try it out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 22:10
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

dude are you kidding me you live in montana! no scope needed go old school!
thats a bear stopping sob and damn handy in the dark timber for elk


I was thinking i would go old school, but I would like to put a fiber optics front sight on it if I am going to do that for faster sight alignment. Can't wait to try it out.
 
i'll allow it!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 22:35
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Real nice wood grain there!...........Scope it??.... You can, but make sure that if you do, you put on a low powered fixed or variable. It should be light, preferably straight tubed for a lower better looking profile and very quick (both eyes open aiming) to the target.........
 
This will give you a good idea.......Go to gunblast.com and read Jeff Quinn`s recent article about a blued 45-70 Guide Gun that he got. I don`t remember the date. He did a real sweet scout set up with the Leupy 2.5x scout w/custom carvings on the scope from Leupold`s custom shop.....He got the scout mount rail from Brownells, which is also long enough to mount a conventional scope. He also used quick detachable rings.
 
For a conventionally mounted scope? The Weaver V3 1-3x20 is excellent for the Guide Gun. The Leupy 1.5-5x20 VX3 is also excellent. The lower variable 4200, and Sightrons too.
 
Only 3 good choices for an EER scout. The Leupy, Burris or the Nikon Monarch 2.5-8x28 EER UCC.
 
On that rifle, my choice would be a very quick scout set up like what Jeff Quinn did.  
 
That`s a real tough question with this gun!......Scope or not to scope?? Depending on your eyes, a shot on a hog at say 50 yards or more, may be a little tough with just iron sights, but will be easier for a bigger animal like a bear.
 
You never know exactly, what any given hunting circumstance will bring. 
 
No other rifle imo, can offer a bigger, heated debate on the subject of scoping or not to scope! Damned if ya do and damned if ya don`t!! You can go whacky figuring out what the best thing to do is!....Whacko....................
 
  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 22:45
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Quinn`s article is in the "archives" section dated April 23rd `08........If you scope it though, a silver scope would be the better choice for the stainless.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 22:53
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I will use it primarily for elk, deer, and bear in timber and brush. And maybe a buffalo hunt if I get drawn for it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 23:19
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

I will use it primarily for elk, deer, and bear in timber and brush. And maybe a buffalo hunt if I get drawn for it.
..............If that`s the case, then hopefully, you`ll get to within 60 yards, maybe 75 yards (max.) if not scoping that rifle..............The Guide guns I`ve seen, did not have the good looking wood grain like yours does!........Nice piece! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 23:29
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It would be nice to get that close to the animals. Would be a definite challange to do it with elk. It is going to be hard to decide what to do. I would like the old school and challange of iron sights, but would also love the capabilities of longer shots with a scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 23:31
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does this classify as a squeezer special with that short barrel?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 23:44
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

does this classify as a squeezer special with that short barrel?


Big%20Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2008 at 23:52
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

dude are you kidding me you live in montana! no scope needed go old school!
thats a bear stopping sob and damn handy in the dark timber for elk


I was thinking i would go old school, but I would like to put a fiber optics front sight on it if I am going to do that for faster sight alignment. Can't wait to try it out.
 
i'll allow it!
 
The Fiber Optic sights are great as long as you can keep the fiber optic in place. My experience is they go missing when snagged in the woods. Then, no sight when you need it. Marbles white or the gold bead works longer. I have never lost one.  Facing a bear would be sad with no front sight.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2008 at 00:29
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

It would be nice to get that close to the animals. Would be a definite challange to do it with elk. It is going to be hard to decide what to do. I would like the old school and challange of iron sights, but would also love the capabilities of longer shots with a scope.
.....................Exactly!.... And that will be the debate going on in your head;,,,,Do I scope?,,,,,Do I no scope?,,,,,Scope?,,,,,No scope?...........
 
If you read the thread I started "lever actions; which one", I too was heavily considering a Guide Gun or a longer tubed 45-70 Marlin along with the BLR in the 450 Marlin.
 
I`ll probably go with the BLR, because I can reload a wide range of the pointed spitzers, in which case, if I were not to scope, that will limit the BLR`s full range potential of say 150-250 yards or so depending on the load...........So I will definately need to scope the BLR. 
 
With the characteristics of that 45-70 Guide gun, you are really on the fence ballistically between scoping vs. non-scoping! Can`t get closer than 125 yards on a nice elk?? You may wish you had a scope based on that circumstance.
 
Here is the question I would ask myself if in your place!... Can I mount a scope on my Guide gun, while still maintaining the same shouldering and aiming speed (for shorter ranges too), for which that rifle was designed for??.........From first hand experience, I will tell you that the scout scopes are very fast. The lower powered conventionally mounted scopes like my 1.5-5x20 VX3 are also very fast when set on the low power. The red dots perhaps even more so.
 
I believe that with the right scope on your Guide gun and with some aiming practice, you will not lose shot opportunities as opposed to leaving it un-scoped! Your percentage of overall success under most hunting situations IMO, will be increased with the RIGHT scope, that will be a greater help, in order for you to properly place your shot, IF you cannot get closer in some situations. Better not to lose a good trophy and CYA as much as possible.
 
BTW! The Leupy 2.5x scout in the grey would look fantastic on that rifle. Remember! While you only have a 22' or so FOV @ 100 yards with that scope, you also have the ability to keep both your eyes open during acquisition and aiming. With the scouts, its not just the FOV in feet that matters when looking through them. With both eyes open your combined FOV when including your non-aiming eye, is much greater and of course very quick even at very short ranges.
 
`Ol school thinking (not to scope), is fine and all well and good, as long as you don`t lose a shot or opportunity in the process. If that happens, then you can chalk it up to some `ol school thinking.........The RIGHT scope will imo, CYA in just about any hunting situation with your new rifle.Wink
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2008 at 00:33
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

does this classify as a squeezer special with that short barrel?


Big%20Grin
.YOU BET YER ***!!!.. That Guide gun is an excellent "Squeezer Es-pe-ci-olo"Big%20GrinBig%20GrinBig%20GrinBig%20GrinBig%20GrinBig%20GrinBig%20GrinBig%20GrinBig%20Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2008 at 02:21
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I keep mine with open sites. That way I can have it riding in the truck all summer as bear defense and then use it banging brush for white tail's and not have to worry about the scope getting knocked out. Plus I just feel nostalgic, and there brings a certain pride in being able to effectively use a weapon with no scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 10:01
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I think a lot depends on if you are serious about bringing the meat home or just enjoying the rifle. For pure enjoyment and fun, I would not scope the rifle. It will make for a better handling rifle.
If you are dead on hitting what you aim for, use your other scoped rifle and leave this one riding in the truck.
Just enjoy it as it is, is my opinion.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 10:16
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I have kept the open sights on my lever guns.
I prefer the Williams FP and have been using them for over thirty years. Also very good are the XS mount systems aperture. They have a larger aperture than the Williams. You can adjust the Williams for a smaller more accurate aperture or remove the screw in and use the larger aperture.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 17:17
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Scope-it!, just make sure on that eye relief
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 17:49
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could try the low powered Trijicon or  new illum 4200 1.25-4 ( both are quick and offer wide FOV ) .. color wise, I don't recall ever seeing any straight walled low power silver scopes--always matte black...I have 2 1895's in 45/70 and now both wear 1.5-6 4200 Elites and it's a great match , although it might be a tad long for a guide gun ( and not the easiest to find anymore)

Any thoughts on a red dot / Aimpoint  type optic?

Edited by martin3175 - July/28/2008 at 20:38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 18:00
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Originally posted by martin3175 martin3175 wrote:

Any thoughts on a red dot / Aimpoint  type optic?
 
Thats an interesting idea.
????
 
Beautiful rifle, my friend!!! I'm GREEN with envy!!
Good for you!!  Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 18:07
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Helo if your less than 40 don't scope it. If your over 40, Big Squeeze has good advice. A light, low power variable would squeeze all the potential out of that carbine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 18:08
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Assuming one takes a little time to practice and contrary to what most believe, there are only a handfull of scopes, that will handle and aim just as quickly as the iron sites............If you are planning some serious hunting time with your Guide gun (that`s why you got it), you can place the right scope on it, have your cake and eat it too and be ready just in case of any longer shot, not planned on, that you WILL need to properly place, that you CANNOT do with the iron sites alone!...........I`m with Lucytuma here!.....You don`t want to go on a hunt with your Guide gun and miss out on a shot opportunity because it was not scoped and then say later; "I shoulda brought my scope rifle."........ For dangerous bears in close cover, where you know (or your guide knows), the shots will be, say 60 yards or less, the scope can always be removed.....For someone to say, that they will never scope a lever gun, is just asking for a POSSIBLE missed opportunity................I personally, would not take any chances, regardless of how remote those chances are.     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 18:08
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To me, part of the charm of lever actions is the handiness and quickness, and I'd prefer to keep it simple.  I'd go old school.  I just don't care for scopes on lever actions. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 18:11
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That is a nice rifle, by the way!  Yours seems to have better than average wood.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2008 at 18:44
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Yep!
 
The `ol school charm and emotion of not scoping a lever will work just fine,,,,UNTIL,,,,by some small chance or remote possibility, an opportunity is lost because, you were by chance not able to get closer in fear of blowing your cover. Instead, a scope would have placed that shot in the vitals where it needed to go and do so from a longer range........A 45-70 Guide gun is very capable out to what? 125 to 150 yards on deer, elk and black bear? Maybe a little more?................If that situation occurs, where the terrain or lack of cover will not allow you to get closer? Use some of that `ol school charm and take a shot with only iron sites?.............No thanks! 
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