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A good question... about depths

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 06:44
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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My question is.

 

      3.476 is the length from (col) to the lands.

  --- 3.340 is the col of my gun and the max a shell can be for mag.

     0.136 is how far a jump my bullet has to the lands. ( If math is correct) this seems like a lot to me

 

 

Dose this seem right. I took 2 hours tested and retested colored shell over and over until I found the just and i mean just touching the lands.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 08:09
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The length 3.476 is from where to where? Or is this the length of your colored shell?

Are you handloading or measuring a factory round?

If I read you correctly, the magazine is the limiting factor to make your COL longer.

On a 300H&H I am about 1,6mm off the lands. Your 0.136 inches is about 3,45mm. So it does seem a bit excessive.

However, the proof lies in how the rifle is grouping. Moving it to far in or out for your particular rifle will negatively effect the grouping.

So if it shoots well, leave it alone. If there is room for improvement, you need to sort the mag out to take a longer OAL.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 08:38
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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 8shots,

 

  The 3.340 is the length of a factory shell ( handloaded to factory specks)

  The 3.476 is a load that i moved the lead out just untill it touched the lands and i mean barly touched( no marks on colored lead) but if i moved it out any it would then tought.so very close to it.

 

The 0.136 is the differance from the factory shell to the lands.

 

when i load hot loads it shoots alot better.so i'm dropping down charges and loosing my groups ,opeing way up.

 

My max length for my mag is 3.340 and the tips touch inside. i was just woundering if i had way to much bullet jump from the 3.340 untill the lands.

 

If i wanted to move the bullets out to see if it would help get my groups back what would be a good number to start with? I also know if i move it out i will need to make it a single shot on first round.then the following shell would need to fit the mag.

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 10:16
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To test grouping at least 3 shots need to be fired. 2 shots for load development can still give an idea, but that is all. I would start at 0.04 inches off the lands and work back. You can of course hand feed each bullet, in other words make up 2 on .04 off the lands, 2 at .06 and 2 at .08 etc and just fire one shot, hand feed the next one and so on.

Shoot all the bullets at the same target without adjusting point of aim and carefully mark each shot.

A pattern should emerge, from which you can select the best.

My 30-06 likes the bullet allmost touching the lands, my 300H&H seems to like it 1,6 mm off the lands.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 10:25
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  8shots,

I will try that thanks for the help.

  i will make some at 3.470 then back down to 3.460 then down to 3.450 and see if i can find a sweet spot for it.

 



Edited by Bigdaddy0381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 10:31
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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go to (competitor) -- order stoney point seating and lands gauge and cartridge that goes with it --- this device allows one to use different bullets, as each touch the lands differently. I think stoney (hornandy) recommends .02 of the lands, but as 8shots suggest it is gun/load sensitive. The downside--- unless your shooting a single shot, magazine length, and other factors enter in. Testing at different depths gets tricky however because you now have two degrees of freedom in the equation (relationship between seating depth and powder is no longer linear) and the seating depth will depend on powder charge. ie. bullets with high travel can take quite a bit more powder.  (one of weatherbys tricks when using freebore) and this depends on the wear in the lands. As Rifledude suggests (another post) , that moving the bullet forward is equal to a "rechamber job". none the less 8shots method is highly recommended as it allows you to track down the best avenue.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 10:42
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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  So if i move the bullet out(closer to lands) i will need less powder? and if i move it back i will need more for the travel of the bullet?

 

right now i'm going to work another good load for one bullet at a time and then work out the others i will be using.

 

I had a great group with a hot load is pic in another post but i droped the powder down and it opened up and i'm just trying ti fix it.

 

 

Thanks for all the input.....

 

 



Edited by Bigdaddy0381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2007 at 12:04
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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the sooner the bullet is stopped by the lands --(up to and includiing be jammed in) the higher the pressure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/28/2007 at 08:58
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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Any advice on any of these loads? Dose this all seem safe and relative to do?

 

 

Bullet test loads.

 

 Swift siroccos 180gr, 71 grains H4831sc 0.071 off lands    10 shells

 Swift siroccos 180gr 73 grains H4831sc 0.071 off lands    10 shells

 

 

 Hornaday  180gr sst  73 grains H4831sc  0.081 off lands    20 shells crimped

 Hornaday  180gr sst  72 grains H4831sc 0.081  of lands    10 shells

 Hornaday  180gr sst  72.5 grains H4831sc 0.081 off lands  10 shells

 

 Barns 200gr TSX    68gr H4831sc 0.094 off lands 10 shells

 Barns 200gr TSX    67gr H4831sc 0.094 off lands 10 shells

 

 Nosler BT 180gr   72gr H4831sc 0.041 off lands 10 shells

 Nosler BT 180gr   73gr H4831sc 0.041 off lands 10 shells

 

Game kings 180gr 72gr H4831sc 0.063 off lands 10 shells

Game kings 180gr 73gr H4831sc 0.063 off lands 9 shells

 

 

 3.340 is COL

 3.476 To lands from col

 0.136 jump from col to lands

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/28/2007 at 09:16
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Bigdaddy, unless I missed something, what rifle are you shooting? 300 Win Mag???

I cannot comment on the powders and charge as they are not used in SA.

I would however comment and say that you are burning a lot of powder to get your answers. I think that unless you have a very analytical mind you are throwing a lot of variables at yourself. Different loads, different seating depth, different bullets.

I would stick to one bullet type, and a load that has worked more or less before, and then only alter seating depth. I would start as Dale suggest at 0.02 and go in increments up to 0.08. Once you have an answer on seating depth, I would then start looking at different bullets.

I also do not think that more then 5 rounds for each is required. If you shoot to many, weather changes, your reflexes etc start going etc.

The KISS principle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/28/2007 at 09:20
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  yes it is a 300 win mag.

 

  Alot of these i had made up for lower powder testing and just moved the lead out.

  I will try one bullet and see how it gose and if it works better i'll play with it and go from there.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2007 at 13:29
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Bigdaddy, you might try some round nose bullets to get closer to the lands.  I  got good accuracy with them in my 303.  It might give you some idea of your rifle's accuracy potential.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2007 at 07:30
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BigDaddy,

Have you found the right bullet, seating depth and load combo yet?

I have just tuned a new barrel bullet combo. I started off by using different grains of powder at the approx velocity I wanted. This was at about 70 grains of S385. The OAL was just off the lands. I eventually found a reasonable grouping at 69 gr. I then played with OAL and found a good grouping at 89,5mm, after starting at 91mm. I then played with the loads again. Eventually all came together on 68.5g powder and OAL of 89,5.

So as Dale says, The one effects the other. So you play with powder load a bit, then tune OAL a bit and so on untill all comes together.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2007 at 09:23
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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8shots,

 I have indeed found a load or 2 for my 300 win mag.

 

  I took and started with the standerd length 3.340. i loaded up 6 shot of each.

 the first batch was 73 gr of H4831sc and i went all the way to 76gr of H4831sc.shot them all and founf the 75 work the best group for that part.then i moved the bullet out to 3.350 and shot them nothing really change so i settled with the 3.340 and 75gr of H4831sc.I put all 6 shotz in a 1 /14 inch group.

 

 I have also worked a load up for 200gr TSX's using 70gr of H4831sc. i shot all 6 in a little over a 2 inch groupe

 

Now the got me smiling group.

I loaded up some 165gr accubonds i started with 74 gr of H4831sc and went to 77gr of H4831sc

 

the firts six shootx i could have coverd with a dime. this was with the 74gr.i was tickled turdless.to say the least.i then shott all the other grains and they all shot well but not like the 74gr did.i know this isn't the fastest 165gr bullet i have ever seen but w0w they hit where i want them to everythime.

 

 

LOL if i glue my gun togather i won't call you.but you might be able to hear me cussing from it.

 

 

I seperated a case and it got stuck.I used a steel rod with a bur on it to hook it and pull it out.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2007 at 09:36
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Glad you got sorted.

With my separated case I tried hooking it, using a copper brush and all sorts. Struggled twenty min or more, no go. Then I went home and did the quickset steel thingy and it popped out.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2007 at 09:44
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a serious reloader has the following

 

back out bits, they are used when something like a cap end bolt is stripped, or a drill bit is broken off in the piece and is drilled out. they have sharp edges and the "thread" grips instead of cutting when turned allowing them to bite into the tapered part of the case shoulder--- then using a cleaning rod, simpley tap the end which removes the case. this will avoid any damage to the lands, chamber or chamber mouth. they come in all sizes which covers all chamber sizes. Brownells.com is a source.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2007 at 16:25
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is that the same thing as an easy out??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 03:02
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pyro6999,  not an easy out.  I have used a bolt which was shaped to fit the inside of the case without protruding into the throat area, to screw into the case remnants just enough to grip without cutting through, then tapping out with a dowel rod from the muzzle. 

Bigdaddy0381,  be careful with hooking out case remnants.  Chambers scratch real easy.  Go with what Dale suggests.  (A homemade extractor thingy can be made using a brass screw or bolt).

Never, ever, use a screwdriver to try to dig it out!  (A friend of mine did that once.  That's when the shaped bolt came to the rescue, but the damage was quite severe.  But with a bit of deburring, the rifle was still usable with reduced pressure loads - so as not to blow the case into the gouge and jam it!)

 



Edited by 303Guy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 08:09
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 Yeah when i was doing that i was sweating bullets.

 

 Baker make a thingy just for this.It bolts up in your gun slides in the shell and wahla pulls it right out.

 

 

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