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9X vs. 14X ... worth the increase?

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onfinal View Drop Down
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    Posted: July/22/2009 at 11:59
I have a Leupold VX-1 3-9X40 on a Mini-14. Great little carbine and scope but due to my old eyes and trifocals I can't see the .223 holes on the target at 100 yds and have to use a spotting scope, which negates the use of my Leupold Zero Point Bore Sighter.

I'm looking at a Meuller 4.5-14X40 AO  APV scope.  Would the 14X be enough of an improvement over 9X to buy the Mueller?  There is no store in town that carries Mueller so a side-by-side comparison isn't possible.

Also, I would appreciate opinions on the Meuller scopes.  I can get the above for around $116 + shipping.  Good deal or should I be looking elsewhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2009 at 12:06
I'd recommend keeping the 3-9 and using the spotter, as you are now.

Whether better glass will improve things is a function more of your eyes than of the glass.  Be advised that better glass beats higher magnification every time.  I have not used Meuller, so I don't know who of the 2 has the better glass.

SWFA has them for $114+ shipping, and has a 110% price guarantee.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2009 at 13:55
Both the VX-1 and the Mueller APV are pretty mediocre from an optical standpoint.  If you absolutely insist on seeing better with the scope, you should look to spend a bit more money. 

Personally, I would use the spotter either way.  That is what it is for.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brodeur272 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2009 at 10:51
+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2009 at 20:40
The Mueller may be sufficient to see the 223 hole.  I own several Muellers scopes and have been very happy.  However, I have never owned the scope you mentioned.  I would recommend the Sport dot versions.  Not much more expensive, but the optics are up to the vx-ii and you should have not problems seeing the 223 holes.  Plus, it is a great hunting scope for even big game hunting rifles.  One good thing about rifle scopes these days.  With modern manufacturing techniques, it does not take an arm and a leg to make a great scope.  Unfortunately, there are too may people with too many agendas pushing the theory that, unless you spend and arm a leg you cannot get a great scope.  Generally it is true, the more money you spend the better the product you get, but, there is a lot of hype in that and you do not know who is hyping the product under the auspices of being a neutral source.  Kind of like the car industry.

Edited by safariarms man - July/23/2009 at 20:42
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onfinal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2009 at 20:48
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If you absolutely insist on seeing better with the scope, you should look to spend a bit more money. 



ILya


Please define "...a bit more money." Would a Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14X40 at ~$300 qualify? What would your recommendations be for minimum "good quality" optics in 4.5-14X40, keeping in mind it's going on a Mini-14?

Thanks for your input, BTW. No matter how hard I try, I can't disprove "you get what you pay for."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onfinal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2009 at 20:54
Originally posted by safariarms man safariarms man wrote:

The Mueller may be sufficient to see the 223 hole.  I own several Muellers scopes and have been very happy.  However, I have never owned the scope you mentioned.  I would recommend the Sport dot versions.  Not much more expensive, but the optics are up to the vx-ii and you should have not problems seeing the 223 holes.  Plus, it is a great hunting scope for even big game hunting rifles.  One good thing about rifle scopes these days.  With modern manufacturing techniques, it does not take an arm and a leg to make a great scope.  Unfortunately, there are too may people with too many agendas pushing the theory that, unless you spend and arm a leg you cannot get a great scope.  Generally it is true, the more money you spend the better the product you get, but, there is a lot of hype in that and you do not know who is hyping the product under the auspices of being a neutral source.  Kind of like the car industry.


Thanks for this input, too. It must have posted as I was typing (slowly, as usual) my reply just above. That's good to hear about the Muellers. I'll look into the Sport Dot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2009 at 21:14
Nikon Buckmaster is a good scope for the money and is definitely one of the better buys in the sub-$300 range.

Sightron S2 3-12x42 is a bit more expensive (~$340), but also very good for the money.

Weaver Grand Slam 4.5-14x40 and 6-20x40 can be had for around (~$350).

Nikon Monarch 3-12x42, but costs ~$400 as does Vortex Viper 4-12x40.

Personally, I would probably not put any one of these onto a Mini-14 and use the spotter, but if you are dead set on getting a higher magnification scope, Weaver Grand Slam probably offers the most bang for the buck right now.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amk204 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2009 at 21:48
not to be a smart a.. but if you are happy with your scope buy some shoot n see targets lots cheeper 
Life is to short to shoot an ugly gun
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/23/2009 at 21:57
Originally posted by amk204 amk204 wrote:

not to be a smart a.. but if you are happy with your scope buy some shoot n see targets lots cheeper 
  Buy far the cheapest solution mentioned!
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/25/2009 at 06:44
Originally posted by amk204 amk204 wrote:

not to be a smart a.. but if you are happy with your scope buy some shoot n see targets lots cheeper 
Also, not a bad idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/25/2009 at 06:50
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Nikon Buckmaster is a good scope for the money and is definitely one of the better buys in the sub-$300 range.

Sightron S2 3-12x42 is a bit more expensive (~$340), but also very good for the money.

Weaver Grand Slam 4.5-14x40 and 6-20x40 can be had for around (~$350).

Nikon Monarch 3-12x42, but costs ~$400 as does Vortex Viper 4-12x40.

Personally, I would probably not put any one of these onto a Mini-14 and use the spotter, but if you are dead set on getting a higher magnification scope, Weaver Grand Slam probably offers the most bang for the buck right now.

ILya
I have to agree with Koshkin.  The mini 14 is a diminutive rifle and putting a large scope on it will destroy the balance and looks of the rifle.  It will work, but detract from the purpose of the rifle.  It is your choice.  The Mueller sport dots are not that heavy, but do have a battery compartment that makes them somewhat bulky.  I own a couple 3x9s and they will probably work fine.  But, before buying, make sure you can see the bullet holes before plunking down your cash.  If you cannot, either make your decision to go bigger, checking that you can still see the bullet holes, use the shoot n see targets or go with the spotting scope.


Edited by safariarms man - July/25/2009 at 06:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/25/2009 at 07:04
[QUOTE=safariarms man]The Mueller may be sufficient to see the 223 hole.  I own several Muellers scopes and have been very happy.  However, I have never owned the scope you mentioned.  I would recommend the Sport dot versions.  Not much more expensive, but the optics are up to the vx-ii and you should have not problems seeing the 223 holes.  Plus, it is a great hunting scope for even big game hunting rifles.  One good thing about rifle scopes these days.  With modern manufacturing techniques, it does not take an arm and a leg to make a great scope.  Unfortunately, there are too may people with too many agendas pushing the theory that, unless you spend and arm a leg you cannot get a great scope.  Generally it is true, the more money you spend the better the product you get, but, there is a lot of hype in that and you do not know who is hyping the product under the auspices of being a neutral source.  Kind of like the car industry. [/Quote
Just to clarify.  Think ATN and some other scope brands I will not mention.  For the life of me, I cannot see how they stay in business charging the prices they do, when I have heard only an occasional positive comment.  Other brands charge a premium for their name, like cars and other goods, which is common place.  And there are other brands like ATN that way over charge for a cheap piece of junk.  Not to say Tasco or BSA are great scopes, but at least they charge what is reasonable.
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