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6.5 grendel scope selection

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 01:05
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Like the subject says, I am trying to figure out what glass I should put on top of my 6.5 grendel. In case you guys aren't familiar with the round (or at least my setup), the round is supersonic to 1200m and many reloaders are getting consistent hits a little beyond that. In my case, a majority of the shots will take place sub 600m, but I am building this gun to be able to start seriously practicing at the 1000m range.

My requirements are FFP and mil/mil, but as a cherry on top would prefer illumination and 10mil turrets.

With a budget of $2k, I would love to hear what optics you all would recommend and perhaps more importantly what power range I should have.

This isn't strictly a range queen and will be used for coyote hunting as well as mule deer, so durability is a major plus because accidents happen, but in general I take exceptional care of my equipment.

I appreciate your help everyone. I know you guys answer the "what optics..." question all the time, but I am flat stuck and could really use any input and knowledge you have.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 07:22
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If you can live with 5x on the bottom end, the SS 5-20 or the Vortex Razor 5-20 meet your criteria -
10 mils per turn, FFP, illuminated and under your budget.  Both have excellent warranties to back them up also.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 07:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 09:31
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If I were set on 3 as my bottom end that steiner looks like an unbelievable value, but I have been struggling to find any info about particular optic.

The IOR has a great range, but I just don't know much about them. I have heard all about their fantastic glass, but I don't see much by way of adjustment repeatability and durability information in the research I have done.

I have been looking at the 5-20 SS and Razor extensively (The razor is actually what made me raise my budget to the 2k) and love both of those scopes, but I am just not certain that 5x is low enough on the bottom.

Seeing you guys suggest the same glass that I have been finding is encouraging.

Does anyone have personal experience with the IOR? I am curious about their durability and perhaps more importantly customer service.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 09:56
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I have had a bunch of IORs.  I have 4 different 3-18x models.  Two of them had some issues.  It has been a while, but IIRC one got lubricant splashed up from the inside onto the glass.  The other in order to zero I had to have the windage almost all the way to the right.  All 4 of them had good accurate adjustments though.

I had a 6-24x and it worked great.  I had two different 2.5-10x models and they both worked great.  I still have a fixed 4x that has seen well over 10,000 rounds on an AR and it has been wonderful for me.  It has been through a lot and just keeps working perfectly.

I personally think IORs are good scopes, if it was not for the SWFA SS line I would still be using IORs.  But value wise the SS line offers more.  The glass is just as good IMO and durability wise they are excellent.

Customer service wise, I had good experiences with them.  But that has not always been the case with others.

The 3-18x models did have a ton of problems with them.  It took I think 4 generations before they got them worked out.  But now I do not read about many issues with them at all.   


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 15:56
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http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php/rifle-scopes/4-rifle-scope-reviews/98-high-end-tactical-scopes-part-3

The first half of the article discusses the three scopes you should be looking at.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 18:48
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ILya, your article is what I used as the baseline for my scope search. My questions for you would be a) if you think that 5-20 power range is suitable for hunting b) you spoke highly of Steiner in the second half of that article and I am curious about your opinion of the 3-12x56 on the samplelist. Based on your article and my other research, I have it narrowed down to 4 options: SS 5-20, Vortex 5-20, Steiner 3-12 or save up for a couple months and hope that USO 3.8-22 hasn't been picked up.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 19:15
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A lot depends on how you hunt. People hunt with fixed power 6x scopes all the time and for most conditions it works fine.  Following the same logic, a 5-20x50 set on 5x should be a perfectly respectable hunting scope for as long as the scope is well optimized across the whole power range.  As it were, both the SS 5-20x50 and Razor 5-20x50 are very competent at 5x.

That having been said a 3-12x will generally make for a better hunting scope.  

One thing to keep in mind is that all of these scopes are big and heavy, so you should be mindful of how the gun balances.  You did not say anything about your gun other than the chambering, so I am not hundred percent sure what would be best.  However, based on the application, something along the lines of a 3-15x50 or 4-16x50 would be optimal.

Unfortunately, neither SS nor Razor currently offer that configuration, but the higher power version are not far off either.  From a weight standpoint, I think the SS is a little lighter than the Razor and the Steiner.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 20:37
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Sorry, I should have clarified that this is an AR platform. The gun is already a pig without optics on it (around 10.5lbs), but I am fairly stout and adding a couple lbs to the 40 I normally carry won't negatively effect me very much.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 20:46
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I should also ask about how important you think a zero stop is considering the cartridge. While very capable of shooting the long intermediate ranges, the Grendel isn't the flattest shooting cartridge and I anticipate twisting well into the second turn for 1000+ yard shots.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 00:14
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Originally posted by RedBeard RedBeard wrote:

Sorry, I should have clarified that this is an AR platform. The gun is already a pig without optics on it (around 10.5lbs), but I am fairly stout and adding a couple lbs to the 40 I normally carry won't negatively effect me very much.

It is not so much about the weight as it is about balance.  Adding a 36 ounce scope in a 12 ounce mount might not make it much harder to carry.  However, for hunting if you need to pull of a shot fairly quickly, it will screw up the balance some.  I have a 6.5 Grendel AR, but it is a little lighter than yours (about eight pounds without a scope) and putting a Steiner 4-16x50 on top of it makes no difference for shooting prone, but a significant difference for getting a quick shot out from improvised positions.

Honestly, if I were you, I would give Premier 3-15x50 LT or Hunter a long hard look if you can swing the price tag.
http://swfa.com/Premier-Heritage-3-15x50-Light-Tactical-Riflescope-P50316.aspx

Another option worth looking at is the new Leupold Mark 6 3-18x44:
http://swfa.com/Leupold-3-18x44-Mark-6-34mm-Riflescope-P52982.aspx

If not, just gor for the SS 5-20x50.

For what it's worth, the scope that sits on my Grendel at the moment is not a tactical scope it all.  It is a hunting scope:
http://swfa.com/Leica-35-14x42-ER-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P53675.aspx

It is an SFP scope, so it is not optimal, but it has a lot of things going for it:

- The optics are seductively good 
- The scope is comparatively light and remarkably easy to get behind
- Combination of ASV turret and G7 reticle gets me out to 800 yards with reasonable ease and with an 18" barrel I do not really shoot further than that with this gun.

Eventually, someone will come out with a proper 3-15x42 tactical scope and that will be ideal for a Grendel, but until then the Leica stays.  

ILya

 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 00:15
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Originally posted by RedBeard RedBeard wrote:

I should also ask about how important you think a zero stop is considering the cartridge. While very capable of shooting the long intermediate ranges, the Grendel isn't the flattest shooting cartridge and I anticipate twisting well into the second turn for 1000+ yard shots.  

I like having a zero stop, but do not consider it necessary and would not base scope purchasing decisions on it.

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 08:34
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My grendel wore an ACOGBucky

 
And  then a SS 3-9
 
Both worked excellent for what i did with it at the time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 10:49
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I had the SS 3-9x42 on the Grendel for a while too and it worked well. If they ever make a 3-15x42 version of the same scope it will be just optimal.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 10:55
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I had the SS 3-9x42 on the Grendel for a while too and it worked well. If they ever make a 3-15x42 version of the same scope it will be just optimal.

ILya
Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 13:06
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I had the SS 3-9x42 on the Grendel for a while too and it worked well. If they ever make a 3-15x42 version of the same scope it will be just optimal.

ILya
Big Smile

For the record though, I own two 3-9x42 scopes and, to put it mildly, I am supremely happy with them.  They are currently setup for a couple of boltguns: 308Win and 280Rem.  In the future, the Leica will likely relocate onto the 280Rem and the SS 3-9x42 will end up on a 300 Blackout AR.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 13:25
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I love the SS 3-9x42 too, but I also love the Conquest 4.5-14x50 I use, and I would love to see a SS 3-15x50, or even a 42. Something between the SS 3-9x42 and the SS 5-20x50 would be just perfect.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 16:59
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I love the SS 3-9x42 too, but I also love the Conquest 4.5-14x50 I use, and I would love to see a SS 3-15x50, or even a 42. Something between the SS 3-9x42 and the SS 5-20x50 would be just perfect.

There are a few respectable 3-15x50 scopes out there already and 4-16x50 is not too different from that either.  What I do not see is a whole lot of good quality tactically-inclined (i.e. FFP with reliable turrets and ranging reticle) with objective lenses in the 40-42mm range.  The only two that immediately come to mind are the 3-18x42 IOR and 3-18x44 Leupold Mark 6.  There is also PFI RR900 2.5-10x40 which is a very respectable design and USO's SN-3 with 37mm and 44m objectives.  However, all of these are fairly pricy.  I want something that retails for less than $1k.  There is a variety of hunting scope of that approximate configuration, although many are pricy, but they are all SFP designs.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2013 at 00:02
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Thanks for the help everyone. After taking all this advice into consideration, I have decided that it would be more advisable to wait a while longer and pic up a USO. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2013 at 07:57
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I love the SS 3-9x42 too, but I also love the Conquest 4.5-14x50 I use, and I would love to see a SS 3-15x50, or even a 42. Something between the SS 3-9x42 and the SS 5-20x50 would be just perfect.

There are a few respectable 3-15x50 scopes out there already and 4-16x50 is not too different from that either.  What I do not see is a whole lot of good quality tactically-inclined (i.e. FFP with reliable turrets and ranging reticle) with objective lenses in the 40-42mm range.  The only two that immediately come to mind are the 3-18x42 IOR and 3-18x44 Leupold Mark 6.  There is also PFI RR900 2.5-10x40 which is a very respectable design and USO's SN-3 with 37mm and 44m objectives.  However, all of these are fairly pricy.  I want something that retails for less than $1k.  There is a variety of hunting scope of that approximate configuration, although many are pricy, but they are all SFP designs.

ILya
I've got a few I'm considering and on my wishlist if funds become availabe before SWFA comes out with something in this catagory.
 
 
 
 
 
Just wondering what you think of my candidates. I really like the IORs, but they are beast as far as weight goes, and the rifle they could be going is already heavy. How does the Vortex glass and mechanics compare to the IORs?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2013 at 19:03
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IORs compete against Vortex' Razor.  The PSTs are much less expensive and optically, they are not competitive with the IOR.

Mechanically, I have not had any problems with the PSTs, although they are not as feature rich as the IORs you have selected.

That having been said, you are breaking a cardinal rule of scope selection: figure out what your price limit is and work from there.

What rifle is this going on?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2013 at 10:39
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

IORs compete against Vortex' Razor.  The PSTs are much less expensive and optically, they are not competitive with the IOR.

Mechanically, I have not had any problems with the PSTs, although they are not as feature rich as the IORs you have selected.

That having been said, you are breaking a cardinal rule of scope selection: figure out what your price limit is and work from there.

What rifle is this going on?

ILya
The funds will depend on how fast the cash can be printed er I mean madeBandito
The rifle is an AR10 SASS in 308. It currently has a 3-9x42 SS, so that will do until funds can be raised.
 
Thanks ILya 
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